Proof you don't need a tuner
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 16
From: Roseville, CA
What year/engine btw?
You are retarded. You didn't do anything more than just type out some hypothetical bull crap. I personally have added pipes and a air cleaner to my bike, more than 15,000 miles ago. Unlike most of the mature gentlemen on this forum, I raise complete hell on my bike, even have the stripped 3rd gear to prove it. I haven't had the first sign of evidence that anything is wrong with my bike because of the lack of a tuner. People like you should just hide behind your computer and be quiet. All people like you do is make other riders ignorant and cost them to spend money that could be put in more helpful spots.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 381
Likes: 2
From: Florida
Youre a idiot too, how do you know what caused my 3rd gear to go out? Its actually pretty common with our bikes, look into. I dont think anyone that raced pro motocross would be missing so many shifts to blow out a gear, do you?
Road Captain
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 673
Likes: 30
From: Warrington England
You are retarded. You didn't do anything more than just type out some hypothetical bull crap. I personally have added pipes and a air cleaner to my bike, more than 15,000 miles ago. Unlike most of the mature gentlemen on this forum, I raise complete hell on my bike, even have the stripped 3rd gear to prove it. I haven't had the first sign of evidence that anything is wrong with my bike because of the lack of a tuner. People like you should just hide behind your computer and be quiet. All people like you do is make other riders ignorant and cost them to spend money that could be put in more helpful spots.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 550
Likes: 8
From: Twin Cities,Mn.
I had a Power Commander on my last bike (FLHRC) and had nothing but problems with it! My local mechanic who has over 25 years of wrenching, building XR 750 race engines etc., told me, and I quote.........."get that piece of **** off your bike!"...........I did........well, I let him do it.........did the simple download, and was a happy camper again! Hate to say this because I know there are a lot of PC users, but I wouldn't have one of those things on my bike EVER again. $350's down the drain, two months of trying to get the thing tuned, dyno runs, three different mechanics from three different dealers, and bike still spit, popped, backfired like crazy. Took it off, dealer remap, and everything ran great. JMHO, but for a simple stage one (slip-ons, airbox) the dealer remap works great. All those SE tuners, PC's, etc. are overkill for a simple stage one, and that's my mechanic's opinion, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
You are retarded. You didn't do anything more than just type out some hypothetical bull crap. I personally have added pipes and a air cleaner to my bike, more than 15,000 miles ago. Unlike most of the mature gentlemen on this forum, I raise complete hell on my bike, even have the stripped 3rd gear to prove it. I haven't had the first sign of evidence that anything is wrong with my bike because of the lack of a tuner. People like you should just hide behind your computer and be quiet. All people like you do is make other riders ignorant and cost them to spend money that could be put in more helpful spots.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 472
Likes: 2
From: Hutchinson, Ks.
I ran my 2011 FXDWG with full V&H, heavy baffles & Stage 1 for about 1000 miles without doing a tuner / Dyno run, but could tell the bike was running really lean. I tried to go on the cheap with the XiED and while I initially thought it helped, but that was short-lived. (Anyone want the thing for 1/2 price?). I took it off and let the ECU go through a couple tanks of gas to get sorted out again and just accepted the fact that until I put it on a Dyno and had it checked I wouldn't know what the motor was really doing.
Turns out it was running WAY lean...
On the baseline run (Red Line), AFR held at a very lean ~15.0 in the 2,400 3,500 RPM range that decayed to ~13.5 at 5,500 RPM and then ~13.0 at 6,200 RPM. After the tune & a few hours with the tech getting it dialed-in, it was a solid ~13.5 all the way across the board, +/-.1 (Blue Line)
Bear in mind, Harley's OEM spec is around 14.6, which is pretty darn lean & hot to begin with.
Horsepower & torque also improved, but it was the AFR that I wanted to get sorted out.
Red line = Baseline, Blue line = after the tune.
Your results may vary... I REALLY wanted the stock ECU to bridge the gap, I really did. And, for some perhaps it does.
Turns out it was running WAY lean...
On the baseline run (Red Line), AFR held at a very lean ~15.0 in the 2,400 3,500 RPM range that decayed to ~13.5 at 5,500 RPM and then ~13.0 at 6,200 RPM. After the tune & a few hours with the tech getting it dialed-in, it was a solid ~13.5 all the way across the board, +/-.1 (Blue Line)
Bear in mind, Harley's OEM spec is around 14.6, which is pretty darn lean & hot to begin with.
Horsepower & torque also improved, but it was the AFR that I wanted to get sorted out.
Red line = Baseline, Blue line = after the tune.
Your results may vary... I REALLY wanted the stock ECU to bridge the gap, I really did. And, for some perhaps it does.
I knew mine was running lean because of excessive popping and then throwing lean codes after I installed full exhaust system. But, with ac and slip ons it ran great with no tune. Every case is different.
Lest we forget how environmental and altitude conditions may affect things.
Tourer
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 262
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
Yeah...you're wrong again......its not a common problem........you seem like a real douche bag....
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 7
From: Southwest Florida
First things first -- Heat IS energy, horsepower IS heat, heat is good.
It isn't often that the parts in your motor fail due to heat. What more often happens is the oil in your motor breaks down. When that happens, the oil stops doing its job and then the parts break down. Yeah, in extreme heat, your motor can fail, but it's almost always the oil that fails first.
Solution? Put a freaking oil cooler on your bike for Christ's sake.
I read all these posts talking about heat, the EPA, yada, yada, yada and nobody has a freaking oil cooler on their bikes.
Funny stuff.
You also might want to consider running an oil that won't break down.
Most dino oils break down at 250* F. Well, not the oils themselves -- The Viscosity Index Improvers -- The VIs. When that happens, all you've got is whatever the base oil started out as -- Maybe a 15 weight oil. Around there.
Run a GOOD synthetic. Most good syns won't break down until the temps reach over 300* F.
That's all for now. I wouldn't mess with the A/C without a tuner. And I would use either a TTS or the Super Tuner. Software, not hardware.
And I wouldn't even bother with any of it without changing the weenie cam that Harley puts in their bikes. Pathetic excuse for a cam. No overlap at all. That's the EPA part that's killer. The heat? Heat is good. 14.6 A/F is good.
Mostly. Sorta
Just an opinion. And you know what they say about those
It isn't often that the parts in your motor fail due to heat. What more often happens is the oil in your motor breaks down. When that happens, the oil stops doing its job and then the parts break down. Yeah, in extreme heat, your motor can fail, but it's almost always the oil that fails first.
Solution? Put a freaking oil cooler on your bike for Christ's sake.
I read all these posts talking about heat, the EPA, yada, yada, yada and nobody has a freaking oil cooler on their bikes.
Funny stuff.
You also might want to consider running an oil that won't break down.
Most dino oils break down at 250* F. Well, not the oils themselves -- The Viscosity Index Improvers -- The VIs. When that happens, all you've got is whatever the base oil started out as -- Maybe a 15 weight oil. Around there.
Run a GOOD synthetic. Most good syns won't break down until the temps reach over 300* F.
That's all for now. I wouldn't mess with the A/C without a tuner. And I would use either a TTS or the Super Tuner. Software, not hardware.
And I wouldn't even bother with any of it without changing the weenie cam that Harley puts in their bikes. Pathetic excuse for a cam. No overlap at all. That's the EPA part that's killer. The heat? Heat is good. 14.6 A/F is good.
Mostly. Sorta
Just an opinion. And you know what they say about those
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 737
Likes: 8
From: Near Atlanta, GA
Unless you have a debate using truly fact-based and data-driven content (not opinion or even twisted and carefully parsed facts & data), all you'll get is something that closely resembles the typical political race.
While the highly subjective content debates tend to be more entertaining, attention-getting and self-sustaining than fact-based debates, there's really nothing to be learned or gained from them. At the end of the day, everyone remains in their same camp and the time and energy that was expended in the debate were essentially squandered resources.
That's one of the reasons that threads on meaningless things like "Do you wave or not?" or "Are you a real biker?" will go on forever: they're PURELY opinion-based subjects where anybody can play since there's no real body of knowledge, facts, or data to draw upon.
When it comes to engineering, opinions are meaningless without the data to back them up. Metaphorically speaking, 2+2 does equal 4, and it doesn't matter how anyone feels about that or that they've seen different answers. You think there's a different answer, well show me your data and make your case. No data, debate over.
We are truly living in the information age, not the age of enlightenment & knowledge.
By the way, this is just my opinion... as I'm too lazy to go and get the data to make this a fact-based argument.
Last edited by FXD_TG; Aug 10, 2012 at 07:05 AM.
