96 vs 103 Dyna
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 267
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
Personally, making a lot of noise just doesn't do it for me - but again, that's just my own personal preference. Not in any way saying it's right for everybody.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Likes: 22
From: Denver
I think the longevity of the 103 was in respect to the fact you wont have to modify as much as a 96 to achieve similar power results. It wont handle cams any better than a 96 from a longevity perspective. But to get a 96 to be equal or better than a 103 in terms of power you will have to do more work to it, decreasing the longevity of it. The more you modify it, the more the reliability goes down ultimately, anything past stage 1. If you are ok getting a bike 3+ years old you are going to save a lot of coin and can put that into mods to make it as fast or faster as a 103, very easily. apples to apples the 103 will noticeably outperform the 96.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I am ending my input on this thread, we are kicking a dead horse.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I am ending my input on this thread, we are kicking a dead horse.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,363
Likes: 109
From: Mesa, Az.
My '08 Wide Glide had a stage 1 96 and put out about 80 hp and 90 torque.
At 120K miles dealer replaced jugs and pistons with stock 103" and added 259E cams and heavy duty springs (stage 2). No head work other that cleaning up the valve seats and new guides / seals. The same dyno produced 100 hp and 105 torque.
It's apples and oranges because of the cam change, but shows what can be accomplished with relatively minor changes. I think that dyno is a little happy too, but the bike pulls hard.
At 120K miles dealer replaced jugs and pistons with stock 103" and added 259E cams and heavy duty springs (stage 2). No head work other that cleaning up the valve seats and new guides / seals. The same dyno produced 100 hp and 105 torque.
It's apples and oranges because of the cam change, but shows what can be accomplished with relatively minor changes. I think that dyno is a little happy too, but the bike pulls hard.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 290
Likes: 2
From: wayland ny
Comparing a 96 to a 103 in stock and stage one form will give very similar results. It's only 7 cubic inches however those 7 cubes are huge once you've done some headwork and cams jump into the mix.
If a person has a 96 and wanted to go with a big bore kit only a retard would buy the 103 kit when there are 106/107 kits out there. For basically the same parts cost and labour costs you get more cubes with the 106/107. It's a no brainer. Go as big as you can afford.
I bought my S&S 106 kit off eBay for 550 plus shipping to Canada. Ended up being almost 700 after Canada customs was done with me. To buy the Harley 103 kit And have it shipped from toronto it was 1000 bucks.
So I paid less,for more cubes going with S&S and labour for install didn't change.
S&S also coats the cylinder wall with something to aid in their longevity,instead of boring out your old jugs. I'm very happy with how my bike finished up. And my 106 gets 50mpg highway with 107hp/115tq. Try that with your 103s.
If a person has a 96 and wanted to go with a big bore kit only a retard would buy the 103 kit when there are 106/107 kits out there. For basically the same parts cost and labour costs you get more cubes with the 106/107. It's a no brainer. Go as big as you can afford.
I bought my S&S 106 kit off eBay for 550 plus shipping to Canada. Ended up being almost 700 after Canada customs was done with me. To buy the Harley 103 kit And have it shipped from toronto it was 1000 bucks.
So I paid less,for more cubes going with S&S and labour for install didn't change.
S&S also coats the cylinder wall with something to aid in their longevity,instead of boring out your old jugs. I'm very happy with how my bike finished up. And my 106 gets 50mpg highway with 107hp/115tq. Try that with your 103s.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: California
So I have seen this stated before. I had a lot of work done on my 2006 88". The guy who did it was a bozo and the list of problems afterwards were endless. This terrible outcome was due to the builder not the parts. (the guy came highly recommended and went out of business while my bike was torn apart for the third time. )
Does anyone have any real life evidence that a stage one, with cams only, done by a competent mechanic, would cause premature failure?
Banned
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 4
From: California
I think the longevity of the 103 was in respect to the fact you wont have to modify as much as a 96 to achieve similar power results. It wont handle cams any better than a 96 from a longevity perspective. But to get a 96 to be equal or better than a 103 in terms of power you will have to do more work to it, decreasing the longevity of it. The more you modify it, the more the reliability goes down ultimately, anything past stage 1. If you are ok getting a bike 3+ years old you are going to save a lot of coin and can put that into mods to make it as fast or faster as a 103, very easily. apples to apples the 103 will noticeably outperform the 96.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I am ending my input on this thread, we are kicking a dead horse.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I am ending my input on this thread, we are kicking a dead horse.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,046
Likes: 398
From: sugar land, gulf coast, tx
Harley designs their engines to last for at least the warranty period of two years. Beyond that period we are on our own. That's why a 1700cc engine puts out under 70 hp. Low hp equals less stress on parts and that's what MOCO needs to fulfill the warranty obligations.
Sure, these engines can make much more hp and torque, but they leave that up to the buyers and make lots more money doing so. 74, 80, 88. 96. 103, 110, they all make enough power to take us where ever we want to go. The add on's are just for fun and folly.
Sure, these engines can make much more hp and torque, but they leave that up to the buyers and make lots more money doing so. 74, 80, 88. 96. 103, 110, they all make enough power to take us where ever we want to go. The add on's are just for fun and folly.
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Banned
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 4
From: California
Harley designs their engines to last for at least the warranty period of two years. Beyond that period we are on our own. That's why a 1700cc engine puts out under 70 hp. Low hp equals less stress on parts and that's what MOCO needs to fulfill the warranty obligations.
Sure, these engines can make much more hp and torque, but they leave that up to the buyers and make lots more money doing so. 74, 80, 88. 96. 103, 110, they all make enough power to take us where ever we want to go. The add on's are just for fun and folly.
Sure, these engines can make much more hp and torque, but they leave that up to the buyers and make lots more money doing so. 74, 80, 88. 96. 103, 110, they all make enough power to take us where ever we want to go. The add on's are just for fun and folly.
WRONG!!!
All Harley motors are mapped by Porshe (not just that fugly VROD) the motors are rated to go over 100,000 miles, it's just the ****tards that mess with them and don't know what they're doing or add too much performace is what kills these bikes.
The Evolution motor is rated to do the same, in fact in the HD museum there is an early 90s bagger with over 400,000 miles on it and the motor was UNTOUCHED! NEXT!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,046
Likes: 398
From: sugar land, gulf coast, tx
You didn't really read what I wrote. MOCO corporate is responsible by law to uphold repairs during warranty periods. That is their corporate concern. That and EPA requirements on their air cooled engines are the reasons why they don't build screamers. It cuts down on warranty repair expenses.
Basically, all computer designed engines built today, whether its on a lawnmower or a Porsche, will last much longer than the original owner will probably use it, and the warranty period is the most important to a corporation. We both have valid points and mine wasn't wrong. It had nothing to do with what you said about longevity in MOCO engines. tomp
Basically, all computer designed engines built today, whether its on a lawnmower or a Porsche, will last much longer than the original owner will probably use it, and the warranty period is the most important to a corporation. We both have valid points and mine wasn't wrong. It had nothing to do with what you said about longevity in MOCO engines. tomp