Stage I upgrade: Fact or myth?
Thread Starter
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 2,860
From: SW FL-Jersey Shore Emigre
Stage I upgrade: Fact or myth?
I recently bought a showroom clean stock 2011 FXDWG with 500 miles on it, and of course the first mods I made were a Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather Air Cleaner, and V&H Big shots staggered (in black) like on my FXDF with a Stage I SERT (that Sandy ate). The dealer said that the SERT and/or remapping of the Wide Glides ECU was unnecessary, and a little research on the Web seemed to support this. Apparently a so-called "Stage 1" conversion involves exhausts, air cleaner, and ECU mapping which modifies ONLY the timing, and not the air-fuel ratio (AFR). This should keep the EPA happy in all 50 states, but insisting that remapping is mandatory for uncomplicated exhaust and air cleaner upgrade to avoid a lean condition seems like a potential welfare program for MoCo "stealers".
So, as I understand it, a "Stage I" conversion will yield a more aggressive exhaust note, and a modest (if any) increase in power/throttle response/both-but, if ECU remapping is NOT done, there won't be a lean condition to cause engine damage, because the AFR is unchanged from stock. Am I correct? Please, comments are welcome!
So, as I understand it, a "Stage I" conversion will yield a more aggressive exhaust note, and a modest (if any) increase in power/throttle response/both-but, if ECU remapping is NOT done, there won't be a lean condition to cause engine damage, because the AFR is unchanged from stock. Am I correct? Please, comments are welcome!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 88
From: San Quirino, Italy
I recently bought a showroom clean stock 2011 FXDWG with 500 miles on it, and of course the first mods I made were a Screaming Eagle Heavy Breather Air Cleaner, and V&H Big shots staggered (in black) like on my FXDF with a Stage I SERT (that Sandy ate). The dealer said that the SERT and/or remapping of the Wide Glides ECU was unnecessary, and a little research on the Web seemed to support this. Apparently a so-called "Stage 1" conversion involves exhausts, air cleaner, and ECU mapping which modifies ONLY the timing, and not the air-fuel ratio (AFR). This should keep the EPA happy in all 50 states, but insisting that remapping is mandatory for uncomplicated exhaust and air cleaner upgrade to avoid a lean condition seems like a potential welfare program for MoCo "stealers".
So, as I understand it, a "Stage I" conversion will yield a more aggressive exhaust note, and a modest (if any) increase in power/throttle response/both-but, if ECU remapping is NOT done, there won't be a lean condition to cause engine damage, because the AFR is unchanged from stock. Am I correct? Please, comments are welcome!
So, as I understand it, a "Stage I" conversion will yield a more aggressive exhaust note, and a modest (if any) increase in power/throttle response/both-but, if ECU remapping is NOT done, there won't be a lean condition to cause engine damage, because the AFR is unchanged from stock. Am I correct? Please, comments are welcome!
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 6
From: Arkansas
It's my understanding that on occasion the engine operates outside of the ability for the O2 sensors to maintain a good AFR. And during these events, the ECM uses maps loaded into memory to maintain the correct AFR. So these tables should be adjusted to represent the new equment installed on the bike.
When I did my bike, I wasn't looking for every once of power that this bike could possibly develop. I was looking for a good sounding / running machine. I wound up getting all this and more. Definitely worth every penny it took to get there. I recommend doing it to anyone who is considering it. And I would do it all over again if it were necessary.
When I did my bike, I wasn't looking for every once of power that this bike could possibly develop. I was looking for a good sounding / running machine. I wound up getting all this and more. Definitely worth every penny it took to get there. I recommend doing it to anyone who is considering it. And I would do it all over again if it were necessary.
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
From: Greeley, CO
I talked to my dealership about doing a stage I upgrade on my 2012 FXDC and threw in that it is important that I maintain my factory / extended warranty. I was told that as long as they do all the work and dyno tune it the warranty would be fine.
I am planing on installing V & H Big radius 2 - 1 exhaust, a screamin eagle Stage I AC and a screamin eagle pro-tuner.
I am planing on installing V & H Big radius 2 - 1 exhaust, a screamin eagle Stage I AC and a screamin eagle pro-tuner.
Last edited by 2012SuperGlider; Mar 23, 2013 at 05:43 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 46
From: East Hartford, CT
You can do a stage 1 yourself.
I didn't need a cert or download, I installed the high flow intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and autotune.
No down time, rode the next day.
No problems, bike runs like a raped ape.
If I had a problem I would just disconnect the Autotuner and bingo, back to stock.
they can't bother you over an intake or exhaust at all.
They are pulling your leg on the warranty.
I didn't need a cert or download, I installed the high flow intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and autotune.
No down time, rode the next day.
No problems, bike runs like a raped ape.
If I had a problem I would just disconnect the Autotuner and bingo, back to stock.
they can't bother you over an intake or exhaust at all.
They are pulling your leg on the warranty.
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
From: Greeley, CO
You can do a stage 1 yourself.
I didn't need a cert or download, I installed the high flow intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and autotune.
No down time, rode the next day.
No problems, bike runs like a raped ape.
If I had a problem I would just disconnect the Autotuner and bingo, back to stock.
they can't bother you over an intake or exhaust at all.
They are pulling your leg on the warranty.
I didn't need a cert or download, I installed the high flow intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and autotune.
No down time, rode the next day.
No problems, bike runs like a raped ape.
If I had a problem I would just disconnect the Autotuner and bingo, back to stock.
they can't bother you over an intake or exhaust at all.
They are pulling your leg on the warranty.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 736
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
You can do a stage 1 yourself.
I didn't need a cert or download, I installed the high flow intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and autotune.
No down time, rode the next day.
No problems, bike runs like a raped ape.
If I had a problem I would just disconnect the Autotuner and bingo, back to stock.
they can't bother you over an intake or exhaust at all.
They are pulling your leg on the warranty.
I didn't need a cert or download, I installed the high flow intake, 2 into 1 exhaust and autotune.
No down time, rode the next day.
No problems, bike runs like a raped ape.
If I had a problem I would just disconnect the Autotuner and bingo, back to stock.
they can't bother you over an intake or exhaust at all.
They are pulling your leg on the warranty.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,749
Likes: 16
From: sand mountain Alabama
A good example as how it can help is with my 2012 CVO street glide.
As you now they come with the stage 1 (basically speaking)installed from the factory.
I removed the cat headers and added a pcv with auto tune. A lot of difference in performance and cooling.
Throttle response is much better. Low end better as well as mid range. I kept the stock mufflers as the catless headers raised the volume to my liking.
heat was what I was wanting to remove mainly and it did it just fine.
just a thought
I
As you now they come with the stage 1 (basically speaking)installed from the factory.
I removed the cat headers and added a pcv with auto tune. A lot of difference in performance and cooling.
Throttle response is much better. Low end better as well as mid range. I kept the stock mufflers as the catless headers raised the volume to my liking.
heat was what I was wanting to remove mainly and it did it just fine.
just a thought
I
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Joe Kucinski
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: AZ
Stage 1 - Did my own, Full Pipes, FI Controller, High Flow Air. Much quicker response, runs smoother and cooler. Replacing factory pipes will get rid of the Cat which generates allot of heat.
I wouldn't want to ride a factory stock bike knowing I could've unleashed the restrictions that make it run better and cooler.
Good Luck
Bill
Phoenix
I wouldn't want to ride a factory stock bike knowing I could've unleashed the restrictions that make it run better and cooler.
Good Luck
Bill
Phoenix
Thread Starter
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 2,860
From: SW FL-Jersey Shore Emigre
Thanks for all the responses. I'm not and never was interested in squeezing the last bit of HP from the engine. My FXDF with SERT and Stage I started and ran flawlessly for 7K miles, but I've only put 100 miles on the FXDWG (which also starts and runs flawlessly, so far). It's just that there seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there (YES, even in this forum) regarding EFI. Questions that keep coming up include:
1. Can the 96/103 c.i. engine be run safely with aftermarket exhausts and AC upgrades but WITHOUT remapping the ECU? (so far the answer seems to be yes, since rumor has it that the dealer Stage I conversion doesn't alter the AFR to stay EPA compliant, just the timing curves)
2. Does remapping the ECU with exhausts and AC upgrades ONLY (no other engine modifications) yield any realistic improvement in performance or reliability? (I wonder-my FXDWG with the same engine and upgrades but without ECU modifications seems to run just as well as that on my old FXDF WITH the Stage I remapping).
Comments?
1. Can the 96/103 c.i. engine be run safely with aftermarket exhausts and AC upgrades but WITHOUT remapping the ECU? (so far the answer seems to be yes, since rumor has it that the dealer Stage I conversion doesn't alter the AFR to stay EPA compliant, just the timing curves)
2. Does remapping the ECU with exhausts and AC upgrades ONLY (no other engine modifications) yield any realistic improvement in performance or reliability? (I wonder-my FXDWG with the same engine and upgrades but without ECU modifications seems to run just as well as that on my old FXDF WITH the Stage I remapping).
Comments?