Running Rough with Light Smoke (New V111)
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Joined: Feb 2019
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From: Michigan
Running Rough with Light Smoke (New V111)
I recently installed a new S&S V111, along with an HPi intake and Thundermax tuner (Zipper's MM to TMax conversion kit) on a 1998 Road King (FLHRCI). Currently at 380 miles.
Symptoms:
Excessive shake/vibration
Some smoke from rear cylinder
A "tick" or "tap" that mostly occurs under load (accel., hills, etc)
Starts easy and throttle response is otherwise as expected
Writing learned auto-tune adjustments to the map slightly reduces symptoms
The symptoms seem more pronounced when the bike is warm vs cold. On startup, the idle seems good and settles at just under 1k. The real hard shake occurs at low throttle (estimate between 1100 and 1300 rpm) regardless of gear--including neutral--and during initial acceleration or when engine slows to that range. It's more of a vibration at higher rpm, and it seems to bee a sharp transition between "hard shake" and "vibration". The engine stabilizers are standard from the original motor (~50k on that 80" EVO), and I just replaced the front mount from stock to Ally Art Gooden-tite (polyurethane isolator bushing). It was a more comfortable ride with the stock mount, but the top of the engine shook a good inch or so in each direction.
The noise is like a faint "clatter" at idle, which may just be a noisy valve train, but the "TickTickTick" become apparent under load or slight increase in throttle, and louder when warm. I haven't been able to isolate it with stethoscope. I am guessing at everything from "it's normal" to a poorly adjusted push rod or potentially a little piston slap.
I'm running true duals (bubs exhaust), so it's easy to see that only the rear cylinder is smoking and only when warm. The smoke is faint at idle, puffs out more distinctly at low throttle (just over 1k) and starts to disappear with higher rpm (no idea what it does while riding).
Background:
So I may have F***ed it up all on my own! When I initially put things together, I had the wrong spacer under the rotor, which bottomed out against stator coil and case. Seemed fine when I buttoned 'er up, and during the first 15 mile rough ride I attributed to it being brand new. I realized the mistake within the first 50 when it wouldn't start due to dead batter and a VERY hot primary. The coils were rubbed flat (a couple mills deep) and the case has a etching from the rotor, but only in the lower right corner (it didn't rub evenly around the shaft). The compensator bolt had back itself out from the spec'd torque (was finger tight when I took it back off). I fixed this immediately and replaced it with a 50A CE alternator. As expected, performance was noticeably improved, but still not the "smooth" running touring motor I was led to expect from it. Compression was within a few psi between front and rear, which I think was between 125 and 130. I couldn't immobilize the cylinders well enough to do a leak-down test. I did have an exhaust leak on the rear for roughly the first 100 miles, made evident by either oil or un-burnt fuel leaking from the flange. Rear spark plug electrode/insulator are now a flat black (continued to darken after fixing exhaust), excess carbon build-up, whereas the front plug looks as expected from a properly running motor (slightly darkened electrode and insulator, even coloring). Dropped it off at an independent shop to get tires and proper alignment, and asked for their thoughts on performance. One of their mechanics rode it around the block and said it seemed to be running well and commented "bigger motor bigger shake". I trust the shop opinion, but they had a lot of bikes waiting for work and I didn't exactly task them with troubleshooting/diagnosis, so their assessment was at a glance on a cold bike. And yes, I have been riding according to the break-in procedure outlined in the S&S manual.
While I still have 2yrs 10mo. left on my warranty, I don't fully expect S&S will honor it given the circumstances -- fingers crossed. If this is due to mfg'r defect, I've likely forfeited that benefit along with alternator screw-up or simply by doing my own install. Maybe everything is running normal and I'm being overly concerned about nothing out of the ordinary. Any V111 owners that can compare their experience during break-in?
Symptoms:
Excessive shake/vibration
Some smoke from rear cylinder
A "tick" or "tap" that mostly occurs under load (accel., hills, etc)
Starts easy and throttle response is otherwise as expected
Writing learned auto-tune adjustments to the map slightly reduces symptoms
The symptoms seem more pronounced when the bike is warm vs cold. On startup, the idle seems good and settles at just under 1k. The real hard shake occurs at low throttle (estimate between 1100 and 1300 rpm) regardless of gear--including neutral--and during initial acceleration or when engine slows to that range. It's more of a vibration at higher rpm, and it seems to bee a sharp transition between "hard shake" and "vibration". The engine stabilizers are standard from the original motor (~50k on that 80" EVO), and I just replaced the front mount from stock to Ally Art Gooden-tite (polyurethane isolator bushing). It was a more comfortable ride with the stock mount, but the top of the engine shook a good inch or so in each direction.
The noise is like a faint "clatter" at idle, which may just be a noisy valve train, but the "TickTickTick" become apparent under load or slight increase in throttle, and louder when warm. I haven't been able to isolate it with stethoscope. I am guessing at everything from "it's normal" to a poorly adjusted push rod or potentially a little piston slap.
I'm running true duals (bubs exhaust), so it's easy to see that only the rear cylinder is smoking and only when warm. The smoke is faint at idle, puffs out more distinctly at low throttle (just over 1k) and starts to disappear with higher rpm (no idea what it does while riding).
Background:
So I may have F***ed it up all on my own! When I initially put things together, I had the wrong spacer under the rotor, which bottomed out against stator coil and case. Seemed fine when I buttoned 'er up, and during the first 15 mile rough ride I attributed to it being brand new. I realized the mistake within the first 50 when it wouldn't start due to dead batter and a VERY hot primary. The coils were rubbed flat (a couple mills deep) and the case has a etching from the rotor, but only in the lower right corner (it didn't rub evenly around the shaft). The compensator bolt had back itself out from the spec'd torque (was finger tight when I took it back off). I fixed this immediately and replaced it with a 50A CE alternator. As expected, performance was noticeably improved, but still not the "smooth" running touring motor I was led to expect from it. Compression was within a few psi between front and rear, which I think was between 125 and 130. I couldn't immobilize the cylinders well enough to do a leak-down test. I did have an exhaust leak on the rear for roughly the first 100 miles, made evident by either oil or un-burnt fuel leaking from the flange. Rear spark plug electrode/insulator are now a flat black (continued to darken after fixing exhaust), excess carbon build-up, whereas the front plug looks as expected from a properly running motor (slightly darkened electrode and insulator, even coloring). Dropped it off at an independent shop to get tires and proper alignment, and asked for their thoughts on performance. One of their mechanics rode it around the block and said it seemed to be running well and commented "bigger motor bigger shake". I trust the shop opinion, but they had a lot of bikes waiting for work and I didn't exactly task them with troubleshooting/diagnosis, so their assessment was at a glance on a cold bike. And yes, I have been riding according to the break-in procedure outlined in the S&S manual.
While I still have 2yrs 10mo. left on my warranty, I don't fully expect S&S will honor it given the circumstances -- fingers crossed. If this is due to mfg'r defect, I've likely forfeited that benefit along with alternator screw-up or simply by doing my own install. Maybe everything is running normal and I'm being overly concerned about nothing out of the ordinary. Any V111 owners that can compare their experience during break-in?
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