Ok. My early (keyed rear cam gear) TC88 sheered.
A buddy has this low mile cam plate w/ cams, but the newer style has an extra orifice that my block doesn’t have.

Can i I block this off somehow or should I switch everything to my original cam plate with new bearings?

99 cam plate

2000+ can plate

 

Is it from a Softail? I believe there's some extra ports on the Softail oil pump plates that's used for the balancer.

 

Do a little reading. I too, changed my cam plate recently and read about the extra oil feed hole for the B motors to oil the counterbalancers. You need to block it off or risk losing oil pressure.

 

http://www.andrewsproducts.com/files...n_chain-01.pdf

 

Yes! The Andrews info is exactly what I needed! I couldn’t put the right search terms together to come up with that.
I have spent hours searching through threads here to find that.
Thank you all!!

 

I have those kits in stock. It is to feed the softail tensioners. The block off consists of a screw and washer. If you need me to I can try and dig one up and take pics (pretty sure it's out in the shed). The kits used to come with cam plates for installation into 1999 cases. It was only for 1999 Alpha motors. In 2000 they added a deadhead boss in the Alphas that you just use an o-ring to seal up to - it simulates the Beta feed port.

The screw is short so as not to block the oil passage behind the hole - it just threads in and seals.

IMPORTANT - YOU MAY HAVE AN OIL PUMP ISSUE IF YOU REPLACE THE PUMP - I IDENTIFIED THIS AND THE POWERS THAT BE DECIDED TO LET IT GO. THere are 2 problems with installing a 2000 and later pump into an early 1999 case. THe first is the backcut on the flywheel shaft that drives the gerotors. Early flywheels had a shorter backcut, and later pumps required a deeper backcut to accommodate the wave springs and separator plates. If the backcut is too short, the gerotors will have pressure on them and the pump will sump. The second is with the snout of the pump and the hole in the block it fits into. The 1999 oil pump has a short shout compared to the later pumps. It is entirely possible that a later pump will be installed in an EARLY 1999 case and the snout will hit the case and not seal on the o-ting and the pump will sump. If you need specifics, please let me know.

For the snout issue, I have attached pics below. The larger hole is actually a Beta case, but was the same for later Alphas. If you have a long snout later pump and a smaller diameter EARLY diameter hole, the snout will hit the case and the o-ring will not seal. Again - there is also a gerotor issue with the flywheels as well.

 

That's ^^^^ the kind of thing that makes this a cool place to hang out.

 

Hello Ed, I found your input here in doing some of my own research on a 99 ultra.

I compared the original oil pump to a new one (07-up) to use with the Andrews conversion kit and found the snout on the pump to be a 1/6 " shorter than the stock pump. so according to your post I should be okay there. My concern now is crank back cut. I'm thinking if I push the pump and cam plate in without the cams I should be able to see or feel if the is any extra pressure?

Also it seems the cam plate may need the screw installed to block the hole since there is no extra oil boss in the engine case?

Any thoughts?

 

Steve, Ed posted this a year ago so there is a chance he might not see it. Suggest starting a new thread so when Ed does reply, the forum can take advantage of his knowledge. PM him and point him to your new thread; Ed is a valued member of the forum and will be happy to respond.

Fewer members own early models but those that do will benefit from Ed's reply so the more that see it, the better.

 

Hey DJL, thanks for the compliment - always glad to assist.

To Steve - Any H-D cam plate later than the original 1999 is going to have the hole to feed the Softail balancers. I will wager to say the aftermarket will be the same. If your case does not have the boss that simulates the feed for the Softail balancers, you need the block off screw/seal kit. I still have some of those so you can message me privately as this is not a sales thread. Also I assume you meant to say that the new pump snout is 1/16" shorter than the pump coming out. If that's the case you're good there.

Regarding the gerotors and the flywheel issue. Approximately the first 2-3 months of Twin Cam production did not have the proper back cut on the flywheel shaft that drives the gerotors to accommodate the 99A and later pumps with a spring wave washer and resulted in massive sumping. Special back-cut gerotors were tested but never went into production. If your production date is later than the first few months it will most likely not be an issue. I would advise checking to be 100% if you have any doubt.

Checking it the way you suggest can mess you up because of the wave washer. When installing a cam plate/pump with the wave washer, the assembly always has a little compression because the washer presses the gerotors against the plate and the pump. Your thought is correct if you install the plate/pump/gerotors/wave washer as a complete assembly and have ZERO compression when the plate sits flush in the case. Below is how I would do it.

1) Cams out.
2) Without installing the snout o-ring that seals the pump to the case, install pump/wave washer/gerotors assembly onto the shaft. (Without the snout o-ring in place because you are not going to want to have any sensation of resistance when you do your final checks.)
3) Install the plate in position. Not meaning to install/tighten all the plate to case bolts - just put it into place so you can tighten the pump to it.
4) Tighten the pump to the plate (don't have to torque it full, just make sure it's drawn completely to the plate (you want to compress the spring wave washer. This will eliminate any compression of the wave washer that could mess you up on final check)
5) With the pump now tightened against the plate you should be able to move the plate/pump assembly back and forth (not remove it) so that the so that you can check that the plate will go flush to the case WITH NO SENSATION OF THE INNERMOST GEROTOR HITTING THE SHAFT AND BEING PUSHED INTO THE PUMP. If there is ANY compression of the innermost gerotor at this point, it will not seal to the pump housing and you will have huge sumping issues. So if you can put the plate to the case with ZERO sensation of additional compression of the wave spring you are good to go.

The other way to do this is depth measurements.

Hope this clears it up. If not just let me know.