Adjusting.. adjustable pushrods

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Mar 3, 2021 | 11:37 PM

#11

stuart1270

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Joined: Jun 2009

Posts: 447

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From: Bronxville ny

I just did the SE adjustable push rods. They are 24 threads per inch. Instructions calls for 2.5 turns. However most people suggested .140 for best results I set them at 3 full turns or .125 l have to admit they do sound quieter. Or it could have been the new se585 cams I installed

Mar 4, 2021 | 09:22 AM

#12

fordhd2005

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Joined: Apr 2006

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From: Athens, AL

I've seen a lot of threads and heard people in person talking about trying to resolve the "tick" by adjusting the pushrods. If one followed the instructions (because they can vary from one manufacture to the other), by pumping up the lifters before installing or not, setting the preload, and then adjusting the pushrods to spec, how can there be a need for more adjustment to get rid of the tick? You set the preload and adjusted the pushrod and waited until you can spin it before moving on. It's adjusted. You can spin it but you can't move it up and down. When you start the bike up, the lifters pump up and I would have to imagine if you shut the bike off and immediately accessed and tried to spin the pushrods, you couldn't. Engines make noises and they include "ticks". Now if you have 30k miles on your bike and go out one day and start it and its ticking something fierce, then most likely the lifter isn't pumping up. I just think there is a lot of people out there trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Mar 4, 2021 | 10:11 AM

#13

Clammy

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Joined: Nov 2004

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From: Ottawa, CANADA

The cam lobe profile has a lot to do with valvetrain noise, too. If it has fast closing ramps, it'll will be noisier, as the valves are hitting the seats harder and faster. So it may very well be the nature of the cams you chose, and no amount of pushrod adjustment will eliminate the noise.

Cheers!

Mar 4, 2021 | 04:40 PM

#14

Max Headflow

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From: poway

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordhd2005

While some might think that the lifters make the pushrods tight, in reality they don't. Pumping up is a bit of a misnomer as they are essentially priming and that's it. Oil fills the cavity between the plunger and the body, There isn't enough oil or plunger spring pressure to add more than a say 10lb for taking up the slack. Pushrod needs more than 200 lbs of force to lift the valve off the seat. When the lifter looses it's prime, is when it gets noisy. It smacks the valve open and drops it on the seat harder. The only way they can pump up is if the valvetrain can't maintain tension. At that point the pushrod slackens and the lifter is allowed to move beyond 0 lash. It's commonly known as valve float. Fortunately on a modern ignition or efi, it's almost impossible.

Lifters actually loose a little lift as they are typically setup to bleed some oil past the plunger so they actually collapse a little every time the lift the valve off the seat. Controlling the collapse is what helps with the valve noise. Setting the pushrods deeper seem to help with the collapse. I've set them to 0.150 but with higher performance stuff. I'll set them like the have travel limiters in them. Tighten the pushrod until the lifter won't collapse any more then back off slow til it starts to spin freer then ad 1/2 turn.

Mar 5, 2021 | 07:33 AM

#15

fordhd2005

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Joined: Apr 2006

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From: Athens, AL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headflow

While some might think .....

So you had to go and get all technical and ****...

But seriously... good information and a couple other questions: Wouldn't you think the manufacturer of a lifter calculated/compensated for the bleed down in their recommended adjustment? Why would the lifter lose and or not maintain it's prime (other than just being shot)? Also, let's say that I adjusted my PRs 3.5 turns from 0 lash per the instructions and my lifters were not primed, how many additional turns could I go before I started opening the valve?

Mar 5, 2021 | 10:54 AM

#16

Max Headflow

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Joined: Dec 2005

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From: poway

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordhd2005

So you had to go and get all technical and ****...

While all the BS I posted is essentially correct and it possibly helps with understanding how the lifter works, there isn't any hard fast rule / calculation as to lifter bleed that is ideal. The problem stems from the fact that the lifters end up in a number of different motors that use different cams, valve spring pressures, valve train masses, oil pressure and viscosity, engine temps and a few things. Doing lifters is an art more than a science at times. It seems like you could get away with a almost 0 bleed and everything would be fine. The problem with this is that if the clearances are too tight, the plunger get too much drag (especially when cold) and won't fill to zero lash. They can stick. Too loose and they bleed too much when hot. You need some oil flowing past the plunger to keep it lubricated.

Not sure about you lifters but most are primed and tested with a very light oil. Chances are yours are. They compress almost at the rate you can get your wrench on the pushrod. Once they are filled with motor oil, bleed can be a lot slower. As far as the magic number of turns the consensus seems to be about whatever gets you to 0.150 preload from extended. You can give that a shot and see how it works. As long as the pushrod spins relatively freely when cold, you are not too tight.

Mar 5, 2021 | 02:40 PM

#17

fordhd2005

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Joined: Apr 2006

Posts: 863

Likes: 166

From: Athens, AL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headflow

While all the BS I posted is essentially correct ....

I appreciate the technical details and your opinions/observations/experience on the topic. Personally, I don't have any issues. Every time I've swapped out lifters and pushrods the valve train was quieter than stock. I was just trying to make a point to the OP and anyone else that comes across this thread looking to get rid of the "tick", that if they followed the instructions and correct procedures for adjusting PRs, they're good. I think you did an awesome job of explaining the dynamics of a lifter and I for one have a better understanding of what they're doing. Thanks!

Mar 5, 2021 | 03:49 PM

#18

Max Headflow

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Joined: Dec 2005

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From: poway

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordhd2005

One thing to note is that over time the lifters will loosen up and get a little ticky. I used to own an 02 RKC with Crane H280 cams. Lifters would only last about 20000 miles before they got pretty noisy. A new set would quiet the motor back down again.. This is pretty common with the sharper ramp cams.

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Mar 9, 2021 | 11:41 AM

#19

98hotrodfatboy

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Joined: Mar 2010

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From: Poolville

Well said Max. A lot don't truly understand the cushioning affect, bleed rate and oil pumping ability of a good lifter based on spring selection, valve lift and ramp...