Howdy all,

A couple of months ago I got a new old stock 2023 Ultra Limited with the 114 M8. It's the first new bike I've ever owned after riding for over forty years. I paid for a five year ESP warranty and want to keep that intact. So far I've done the stage one with SE tuner. I've talked to my dealer about possibly installing the SE torque cam. I very rarely rev my motor past 3500 rpm, so I almost never take advantage of the horsepower the M8 offers, mostly just the torque. I talked with the service manager about replacing the plastic tappet cuffs, lifters, and pushrods with S&S parts and he said they could do that without voiding my warranty. He said a lot of times that is a gray area that dealers can operate in regarding warranty. The heart of the job (cam and tuner) are still Harley parts.

Anyhow I would like to hear responses from folks who have installed this particular camshaft and tuner and what their impressions are. I have heard mostly good things about it but I have also read a few posts on other forums complaining that the bike didn't run as smooth as it did stock. That is a concern of mine. I would rather not trade smoothness for the extra torque if possible. I know there are tons of other combinations folks have sworn by on these motors but I am primarily concerned with long term reliability. I would really like to ditch those plastic tappet cuffs and this would be a decent excuse to do that. I have been told that this 447 cam is so mild that it shouldn't affect reliability but any increase in lift over stock will add a little more stress to the valvetrain, hence wanting to swap out the lifters with higher quality units.

This bike is a stupid huge investment for me, so I don't want to do anything that makes it less reliable. I am not disappointed with the power of the motor, but I do notice a slight flat spot up to just under 3000 rpm and was hoping this mild cam upgrade would do away with that without decreasing reliability. Oh I also forgot to mention that I have done some auto tuning runs with the SE tuner and it did smooth things out a little bit after going to the high flow intake. When I had the dealer install that intake (I installed my own A.C.E. slip on mufflers) I got them to swap out the stock plastic intake with the metal one Harley offers.

Anyhow thanks for taking the time to read all of this I greatly appreciate any stories or advice.

 

My 117 ST came with the cvo cam which is very close to the torque cam. Its smooth down low and pulls good up to 4k or so. With 2 people it has no problems passing without downshifting.
The lifter cuff and lifters themselves aren't really known for having problems in the m8. The ones I've taken apart have looked fine no matter how many miles were on them. Some get reused and I have replaced them if the person bought new ones. I would get the cam and adjustable pushrods and install them. If it had say 10k miles or more I'd probably replace those while in there.
I also have that cvo cam for sale with only 1700 miles on it. $100

 

Thanks for the reply. I have spoken to two different dealers (one was Low Country Harley ad I talked to Doc) who have seen those plastic lifter cuffs fail especially after upgrading the cam, so that's what got me to thinking about replacing them. I figured if I was paying them to install the cam might as well get those cuffs replaced while they were in there. My local dealer told me that the original equipment lifters weren't too bad but they said they had so many failures out of the Screamin' Eagle lifters and pushrods they had to quit using them. The parts manager said he had to dig through nine packs of Screamin' Eagle pushrods to make one set that wasn't bent. They said they have had several of the SE pushrods fail with broken locknuts because the threads of the pushrods are too sloppy and allow the rods to flex (there is a Facebook video of a guy demonstrating this problem).

I'm not looking to waste money, but I figured if that part of the motor is apart I'd go ahead and upgrade the lifters at the same time. I also figured I'd get them to install the new upgraded SE oil pump and billet cam plate for the extra scavenging.

Please let me know if y'all think I am misunderstanding things. It's sort of deja vu for me, I did the same sort of upgrade to my 2003 Wide Glide at just under 40,000 miles. One of the tensioners was sheared almost completely in two. I upgraded the lifters, pushrods, and oil pump/cam plate and it has run great for eleven years now.

 

Your new bike should already have the newer oil pump and everything. I see no need to waste money on all that. I do replace in the inner cam bearing while in there even though they aren't really an issue on the m8s either. Then maybe s&s lifters, pushrods, lifter cuffs, and new cam you'll be set. I have used the SE pushrods once and must have been a good set because I didn't see anything wrong with them. On my bike I used fuel moto pushrods that came with cam install kit.

 

From what my dealer told me the SE pushrod and lifter problems are recent. I went with SE lifters, pushrods, and billet cam plate in my 03 Wide Glide back in 2013 and I still ride that bike a lot with no problems. Adding a sixth gear probably did reduce strain a bit though.

The cam plate I am referring to:
Screamin' Eagle Pro High Volume Oil Pump & Cam Support Plate Kit
Is supposedly an upgrade over even the ones in the current bikes. The service manager said the main advantage was improved scavenging. I don't know how important that may be for the way I ride but I figure it wouldn't hurt. One thing I recall about the twin cooled bikes is the oil gets a little hotter than the "air cooled" bikes because they have a dedicated oil cooler on them. That's another reason I wouldn't mind improving oil flow if possible. They've gotta take the old cam plate off anyhow to do to the job so it wouldn't be any extra labor to install the SE one.

Thanks for the tip on the cam bearing I'll double check the build sheet and see if it is on there.

 

I have the SE Torque cam in my 114, left the plastic cuff alone as more often than not, you will shear the bolts that hold the cuffs in when trying to remove them. If you were going with an aggressive high lift cam, then maybe it would be worthwhile to change them, but not with the Torque cam. Bike does sound better than with the stock cam, and it did boost the low and mid-range power (mainly through the torque increases. I have the S&S Stealth air cleaner, and S&S Grand National mufflers on the bike.

 

Thanks for that info I appreciate it. I was told the trick with the cuffs was to heat the bolts up to soften the yellow loctite that Harley puts on them.

Did you notice any decrease in smoothness with the increase in torque?

 

Lifter cup failing may not be due to plastic lifter cuffs but more due to 99C lifters. Once the roller locks up, the lifter will twist.

 

What kind of tune did you do after the cam install?

 

So, you do feel the lope of the cam, not a vibration. With the S&S Grand Nationals, the bike is not obnoxiously loud, but you can hear it. At full throttle conditions, you really hear it. With the S&S Stealth air cleaner, you can hear the sonic pulses of in-rushing air. once the throttle is opened up intake noise also goes up. Biggest thing about the Stealth air cleaner is the uncovering of the side of the engine. The factory airbox blocks off at ton of the engine from cooling air.