Name this engine noise... 99 Ultra Classic
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Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Michigan
Name this engine noise... 99 Ultra Classic
So I have had my "new" 99 Ultra for exactly 2 months and ~800 miles. With the colder weather here in Motown, a lower crankcase noise on cold start is getting louder, or I am getting more concerned. I am fairly well versed in car engines (day job is actually in engine design for an OEM), so don't be shy on feedback. No other odd engine noises except when starting the engine cold, oil pressure comes up to 40 psi in a few seconds (ambient temp when the vid was taken was about 40 degrees) I am 99.999% sure the motor never got the recall work for the cam bearings, nor does it have the hydraulic chain tensioner upgrade either. The bike has ~13700 miles on it, the last 800 of it since the end of Sept. Before that, the bike was stored and rarely started for over 2 years. Recently, I have started to get a check engine light intermittently, and only at idle, only shortly after starting the bike. I am researching that issue separately.
Since pictures are worth 1000 words, here's a movie.. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt77...feature=g-crec
Since pictures are worth 1000 words, here's a movie.. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt77...feature=g-crec
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 66,948
Likes: 4,573
From: TOAK western branch
With the check engine light light issue your pump or bleed back valve might be going out. If it sits for a few days does the oil lvel go down. Might be time for the hyd up grade. Did you check for any codes?
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Intermediate
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From: Michigan
Wow... thanks for the fast response! I have not checked oil level that frequently. I thought that was a diagnostic light for the EFI, not oil pressure? The pressure guage appears to build pressure over a few seconds. Not as fast as my Softail, but it also has a mechanical guage.
Bleed back valve? I am guessing a checkball to keep oil in the lube circuit, but is it before between the pump and the tank or between the pump and the oil galleys?
If that's a lifter pumping up, that's LOUD, never heard a good lifter make that much noise, and the last time I looked at a Twin Cam lifter, it looked identical to a late model LS engine hydraulic roller lifter..
This hyd upgrade you mentioned, is this for the chain tensioner or something different?
Again, thanks for the fast response.
Bleed back valve? I am guessing a checkball to keep oil in the lube circuit, but is it before between the pump and the tank or between the pump and the oil galleys?
If that's a lifter pumping up, that's LOUD, never heard a good lifter make that much noise, and the last time I looked at a Twin Cam lifter, it looked identical to a late model LS engine hydraulic roller lifter..
This hyd upgrade you mentioned, is this for the chain tensioner or something different?
Again, thanks for the fast response.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 66,948
Likes: 4,573
From: TOAK western branch
Wow... thanks for the fast response! I have not checked oil level that frequently. I thought that was a diagnostic light for the EFI, not oil pressure? The pressure guage appears to build pressure over a few seconds. Not as fast as my Softail, but it also has a mechanical guage.
Bleed back valve? I am guessing a checkball to keep oil in the lube circuit, but is it before between the pump and the tank or between the pump and the oil galleys?
If that's a lifter pumping up, that's LOUD, never heard a good lifter make that much noise, and the last time I looked at a Twin Cam lifter, it looked identical to a late model LS engine hydraulic roller lifter..
This hyd upgrade you mentioned, is this for the chain tensioner or something different?
Again, thanks for the fast response.
Bleed back valve? I am guessing a checkball to keep oil in the lube circuit, but is it before between the pump and the tank or between the pump and the oil galleys?
If that's a lifter pumping up, that's LOUD, never heard a good lifter make that much noise, and the last time I looked at a Twin Cam lifter, it looked identical to a late model LS engine hydraulic roller lifter..
This hyd upgrade you mentioned, is this for the chain tensioner or something different?
Again, thanks for the fast response.
Just a good idea to check for codes.
When my oil gets thin tward or after service intervle it sometimes makes the same noise.
Yes. The same as LS lifters but with a slightly larger orifice in the push tube cup.
The hyd upgrade upgrades to a better pump and gets rid of the Morris style flat link chain for a roller chain. Do a quick search here for "hyd cam chain tensioners".
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Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Michigan
The ball is on the pump plate.
Just a good idea to check for codes.
When my oil gets thin tward or after service intervle it sometimes makes the same noise.
Yes. The same as LS lifters but with a slightly larger orifice in the push tube cup.
The hyd upgrade upgrades to a better pump and gets rid of the Morris style flat link chain for a roller chain. Do a quick search here for "hyd cam chain tensioners".
Just a good idea to check for codes.
When my oil gets thin tward or after service intervle it sometimes makes the same noise.
Yes. The same as LS lifters but with a slightly larger orifice in the push tube cup.
The hyd upgrade upgrades to a better pump and gets rid of the Morris style flat link chain for a roller chain. Do a quick search here for "hyd cam chain tensioners".
OK, I wanted to make sure there were not two different oil system upgrades. I'll do an oil change (need to anyway) and see how the noise is after that. Regarding the chain tensionser upgrade, I am researching it. Not sure that kind of upgrade is needed, seems like you just need better guide material, or replace the tensioners every 15,000 miles. If I do any major displacement or power upgrades, the tensioner upgrade will be on the list as well.
I was hoping to ride this one not wrench on it, and concentrate up my 89 this winter, might need to change the plans.
Thanks for the info!
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Joined: Oct 2012
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From: california
With that low of mileage its pretty rare to see waster tensioner shoes. For some wrenchin time they can be inspected. The lifter bit isnt abnormal really. A couple times a lifter will bleed down and you have what you got in the vid, no biggie. Personally Ive been running M1 15/50 in the last 4 bikes with no such problems. The Wide Glide I had ran HD 360 and it was banging just about every start after it say a few days. make sure to use a good filter also, I use HD filters cause there's a dealer close. Ive also run Wix 1348's. Far as internal upgrades....its a couple things. The early bikes had cam bearing failures because of crappy bearings. The tensioners the other issue, they just wear out and bits get sucked into the engines oil passages and pump potentially. You can upgrade to later style hydraulic tensioners or go with a gear drive set up. Either was I recall its about $1200 parts and labor. During this process its time for better cams as well which will wake her up nicely. Id start by hitting up a reputable HD dealer with your vin# so they can tell you if the cam chest TSB was done on it and go from there.
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Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Michigan
With that low of mileage its pretty rare to see waster tensioner shoes. For some wrenchin time they can be inspected. The lifter bit isnt abnormal really. A couple times a lifter will bleed down and you have what you got in the vid, no biggie. Personally Ive been running M1 15/50 in the last 4 bikes with no such problems. The Wide Glide I had ran HD 360 and it was banging just about every start after it say a few days. make sure to use a good filter also, I use HD filters cause there's a dealer close. Ive also run Wix 1348's. Far as internal upgrades....its a couple things. The early bikes had cam bearing failures because of crappy bearings. The tensioners the other issue, they just wear out and bits get sucked into the engines oil passages and pump potentially. You can upgrade to later style hydraulic tensioners or go with a gear drive set up. Either was I recall its about $1200 parts and labor. During this process its time for better cams as well which will wake her up nicely. Id start by hitting up a reputable HD dealer with your vin# so they can tell you if the cam chest TSB was done on it and go from there.
We'll see what fresh oil does, while the oil was fresh mileage wise, it had been sitting in the crank case for a while.. I have to see if I can find 15-50, I have only seen 15-40 and non-diesel 20W-50. I found it odd that the HD manual called out the diesel oil, which I assume is for the ZDDP content even though it's a roller lifter engine.. if the oil change doesn't do anything, I'll look deeper. I have to finish the fork rebuild on my 89 before I take my Ultra down any time.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 50
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From: california
The sensor is in a awkward place, one allen and it will come out. Its only 1/2 long or so and "O" ringed so it will be snug. I used to work around it, but now I pull it so my BFCL (Big F'ing channel locks) filter removal program dosent kill it. 
I wish either Delo ,Rotella or Delvac was avaliable in 20/50, Id never use anything but. BTW, Rotella T5 & T6 5/40 are JASO rated. I dont use either, just sayin. I have used Delo 15/40 in one of my HD's in winter. Summer hits 100+ here so I prefer 15/50.
I wish either Delo ,Rotella or Delvac was avaliable in 20/50, Id never use anything but. BTW, Rotella T5 & T6 5/40 are JASO rated. I dont use either, just sayin. I have used Delo 15/40 in one of my HD's in winter. Summer hits 100+ here so I prefer 15/50.
Last edited by dynaratt; Dec 3, 2012 at 07:26 PM.
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