New Lifters not Pumping Up (Noisy)
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From: Brighton, MI
New Lifters not Pumping Up (Noisy)
Question: Can I get oil flowing to the top end and still not have the lifters pump up?
Just got my top end back together. Fired it up for the first time and heard lifters tapping away. Did not think anything of it as I did not prime the lifters prior to installing. I did lube the rollers, bores, and new cam when I installed them. They are Johnson Hylifts.
Ran the bike for a couple minutes, noise did not go away. Let it cool down (new pistons and rings) and repeat. Did this 5 separate times, and still tapping.
Pulled valve covers and it is getting oil up top. I even pulled the plugs and cranked the engine for a bit thinking things were not primed and tested again. No tapping noise when cranking starter but definite tapping like lifters in front and rear cylinder when it is running. If I were to guess it sounds like front and rear exhaust tappets are making the noise.
I did read a thread where one bike took like 10 minutes for his lifter noise to go away, but I would think that would have happened by now based on how many times I ran it. I did not rev the engine above 1200 RPM's.
I really don't know what to check next. I am ready to pull things apart and check the lifters. Short of swapping the old ones in or manually priming the new ones, I am at a loss. Any Ideas?
Top end rebuild: wiseco 8.5:1 pistons and rings, vthunder ev3010 installed also with new cam bearing, cam end play at .013. As mentioned Johnson Hylift lifters with STOCK PUSHRODS, .030 head gasket, cylinder bases trued and measured deck height of .005 below the deck.
Again this was my first fire up after rebuild, so very disappointed and also paranoid about running it for any real length of time or higher revs because everything is new. YD
Just got my top end back together. Fired it up for the first time and heard lifters tapping away. Did not think anything of it as I did not prime the lifters prior to installing. I did lube the rollers, bores, and new cam when I installed them. They are Johnson Hylifts.
Ran the bike for a couple minutes, noise did not go away. Let it cool down (new pistons and rings) and repeat. Did this 5 separate times, and still tapping.
Pulled valve covers and it is getting oil up top. I even pulled the plugs and cranked the engine for a bit thinking things were not primed and tested again. No tapping noise when cranking starter but definite tapping like lifters in front and rear cylinder when it is running. If I were to guess it sounds like front and rear exhaust tappets are making the noise.
I did read a thread where one bike took like 10 minutes for his lifter noise to go away, but I would think that would have happened by now based on how many times I ran it. I did not rev the engine above 1200 RPM's.
I really don't know what to check next. I am ready to pull things apart and check the lifters. Short of swapping the old ones in or manually priming the new ones, I am at a loss. Any Ideas?
Top end rebuild: wiseco 8.5:1 pistons and rings, vthunder ev3010 installed also with new cam bearing, cam end play at .013. As mentioned Johnson Hylift lifters with STOCK PUSHRODS, .030 head gasket, cylinder bases trued and measured deck height of .005 below the deck.
Again this was my first fire up after rebuild, so very disappointed and also paranoid about running it for any real length of time or higher revs because everything is new. YD
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From: la la land jerzey
the hi lift lifters adjust different then the OEM units did you get any instructions with the lifters
this may or not be your adjustment they are turned down now that they have had a chance to pump oil through them
rotate the engine till one of the intakes are at full lift - then turn down the other intake and as you are adjusting it turn the pushrod with your fingers till it becomes stiff to turn but no solid and not turn - lock in place and check it can be turned
do all this way - then start it again and see what happens
you did nothing wrong its a peddle valve lifter and needs a different set up to work
you will need to keep an eye on the adjustment till they have bedded in then they will stay
this may or not be your adjustment they are turned down now that they have had a chance to pump oil through them
rotate the engine till one of the intakes are at full lift - then turn down the other intake and as you are adjusting it turn the pushrod with your fingers till it becomes stiff to turn but no solid and not turn - lock in place and check it can be turned
do all this way - then start it again and see what happens
you did nothing wrong its a peddle valve lifter and needs a different set up to work
you will need to keep an eye on the adjustment till they have bedded in then they will stay
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From: la la land jerzey
you need adjustable pushrods - the extra long type that let you remove them i don't care for -
a moly steel that require you to remove the top cover one bolt and push out the rocker shaft to install is what we use but that is me in my shop for reliability
a moly steel that require you to remove the top cover one bolt and push out the rocker shaft to install is what we use but that is me in my shop for reliability
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From: Ohio
At this point it may be a good idea to pull the cap off the engine case that houses the screen(witches hat), remove the screen and check it for garbage. With the screen out, bump the engine and see if oil comes out in bulk or air locked. It is common on a rebuild for a air lock in the oil system or maybe a partial block screen, you said you have oil to the top but the lifters should be taming down by now
Last edited by 1997bagger; Apr 29, 2018 at 08:55 PM.
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From: Pine Flat Dam/South Bay Area, CA
I have Johnson Hylift slow bleed-down lifters in one of my FXR's. They were noisy until I took the bike out for a 20 minute ride & after that they were quiet. With a Wood W6 the bike has valvetrain noise no more than the stock N cam. I did use adjustable pushrods, though. Take the bike out for a ride & see what happens as it may just need to be ran.
Last edited by Tommy C; Apr 29, 2018 at 08:53 PM.
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From: Brighton, MI
No, setting lifters .050 deeper is common with aggressive cams to tame the clatter. difference in head gasket thickness is only 0.15 from a stock to .030.
At this point it may be a good idea to pull the cap off the engine case that houses the screen(witches hat), remove the screen and check it for garbage. With the screen out, bump the engine and see if oil comes out in bulk or air locked. It is common on a rebuild for a air lock in the oil system or maybe a partial block screen, you said you have oil to the top but the lifters should be taming down by now
At this point it may be a good idea to pull the cap off the engine case that houses the screen(witches hat), remove the screen and check it for garbage. With the screen out, bump the engine and see if oil comes out in bulk or air locked. It is common on a rebuild for a air lock in the oil system or maybe a partial block screen, you said you have oil to the top but the lifters should be taming down by now
Thanks, yes, I cleaned the tappet screen just prior to firing it up (along with new oil and filter. I wanted to make sure the screen was clean so I could check it later and know if I found something it would be new material.
After about the third cycle of running without the noise going away, I did check the tappet screen and while normally it would have oil covering the screen or a little will dribble out, as soon as I pulled the screw cap it took about 20 seconds for it to start dribbling out. I thought maybe I had an air lock and this would solve it but it didn't. I will double check the screen after work Monday.
Tommy, thanks, part of me says just run it for a bit, but part of me is freaking out that I am damaging something...
John, or anybody else, what adjustable pushrods brand/type do you recommend?
So if the thinner head gasket, higher lift cam, and the shaved cylinders are still in the comfort zone for stock pushrods/lifters, the next logical thing is two lifters are not pumping up for some reason. Seems like both are on the exhaust. Thanks, I really appreciate the help. YD
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From: Ohio
Lifters are set factory .100 which is 1/2 of .200 lifter travel, several of us set lifter depth at .150. After all of the growing from heat the lifter depth is less, read somewhere the exact amount of loss but forget more chit than I know anymore.
Wasn't going to tell you to run a engine without knowing oil was getting to the lifters but if you did the checks, give it a road test like TommyC mentioned. The exhaust lifters are usually the ones that produce noise because of the oiling process. Those 3010's are good cams and not as aggressive with lobe design like Andrews and Woods so it will be quiet and not going to be a current issue.
PS: Know what springs was installed, we had a member that had the wrong springs putting too much pressure and couldn't tame the noise.
Wasn't going to tell you to run a engine without knowing oil was getting to the lifters but if you did the checks, give it a road test like TommyC mentioned. The exhaust lifters are usually the ones that produce noise because of the oiling process. Those 3010's are good cams and not as aggressive with lobe design like Andrews and Woods so it will be quiet and not going to be a current issue.
PS: Know what springs was installed, we had a member that had the wrong springs putting too much pressure and couldn't tame the noise.
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Thread Starter
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Grand HDF Member
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From: Brighton, MI
OK, double checked the lifter/screen this morning and oil is in there. No debris in the screen.
It did seem like the oil was taking it's sweet time to get the top end. I pulled the front valve cover for my third attempt at running and underside of the top valve cover was dry (I was looking for the rocker arms hitting when still trying to figure out what was up).
I ran it with the valve cover off and the oil took a little bit of time to flow and then it started to spatter on the windshield so it was finally getting oil. Did the same for the rear cylinder on like my 5th attempt and got oil to finally start to spatter on the rear fender.
So I assume as long as the top end is getting oil up there the pistons are getting what they need so it should be safe to give it a run even though the lifters are clacking?
The rear rocker box covers are off and I started to remove the lower (just broke the three 1/4" bolts loose), and stopped to take a breather and to post problem here, while I was posting, I ended up taking wife to the emergency room for chest pain...she is fine but running on just a couple hours of sleep.
After work today I'm going to put things back together, wash off the oil and go give it a run. It now has probably 5 or 6 heat cycles trying to get the lifters to pump up so I will warm it up for a few and take it on it's first actual ride since the rebuild.
Damn, I was so freakin **** about putting this thing together...took my time, double and triple checked specs and everything during assembly, used a combination of assembly lube and assembly grease, torque wrench every step of the way, cleaned every part I touched, read countless rebuild threads, etc.
Thanks for talking me down gentleman...hopefully it just needs a little time and some rpm's. Keeping my fingers crossed. YD
It did seem like the oil was taking it's sweet time to get the top end. I pulled the front valve cover for my third attempt at running and underside of the top valve cover was dry (I was looking for the rocker arms hitting when still trying to figure out what was up).
I ran it with the valve cover off and the oil took a little bit of time to flow and then it started to spatter on the windshield so it was finally getting oil. Did the same for the rear cylinder on like my 5th attempt and got oil to finally start to spatter on the rear fender.
So I assume as long as the top end is getting oil up there the pistons are getting what they need so it should be safe to give it a run even though the lifters are clacking?
The rear rocker box covers are off and I started to remove the lower (just broke the three 1/4" bolts loose), and stopped to take a breather and to post problem here, while I was posting, I ended up taking wife to the emergency room for chest pain...she is fine but running on just a couple hours of sleep.
After work today I'm going to put things back together, wash off the oil and go give it a run. It now has probably 5 or 6 heat cycles trying to get the lifters to pump up so I will warm it up for a few and take it on it's first actual ride since the rebuild.
Damn, I was so freakin **** about putting this thing together...took my time, double and triple checked specs and everything during assembly, used a combination of assembly lube and assembly grease, torque wrench every step of the way, cleaned every part I touched, read countless rebuild threads, etc.
Thanks for talking me down gentleman...hopefully it just needs a little time and some rpm's. Keeping my fingers crossed. YD
Last edited by Yankee Dog; Apr 30, 2018 at 04:28 AM.
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From: Poolville
Yd, your over thinking here. Some lifters do take a while to pump and some don't.... you could not have possibly set anything wrong with stock pushrods.. Take it for a ride.. Don't horse it just be smooth and pay attention.... I have had issues before with lifters not pumping up till a good ride....
If you want to go to adjustables S&S is the way to go..... never an issue and 32 tpi set to 27 flats...
If you want to go to adjustables S&S is the way to go..... never an issue and 32 tpi set to 27 flats...