Leineweber E5S questions
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From: Finland
Leineweber E5S questions
I cannot find any dyno sheets or graphs for E5S anywhere. Would anyone have one? I'd be keen to see at least one..and preferably for 80
Second thing: I know max CR for E5S is 10.5, but how low compression still makes sense with that cam ?
I am currently running with stock CR and EV46. But my engine is on the table now, so its time to upgrade..and most likely CR will be between 9.5 - 10.
(I am not considering Woods, Andrews, S&S or Crane grinds this time)
Second thing: I know max CR for E5S is 10.5, but how low compression still makes sense with that cam ?
I am currently running with stock CR and EV46. But my engine is on the table now, so its time to upgrade..and most likely CR will be between 9.5 - 10.
(I am not considering Woods, Andrews, S&S or Crane grinds this time)
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If you use Search across the entire HDF website there are only 23 posts which mention them! So not much info about them, but it shouldn't take long to read those posts. I suggest you consider an alternative more popular brand of cam.
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From: Poolville
The EV 46 is 25/41-47/17, LSA is 102*, Duration is 246*/246* with 42* overlap, lift@tdc is .207"/.163" with total lift @.495"
The E5S which is listed @ .020" lift needs to be recalculated @ .053", If my calculations are correct,
I have it at 24/40-56/14, LSA is 104*, Duration is 242*/242* with 38* overlap, lifts @tdc of .230"/.125" with total lift @.544".
I would think this cam wold top out @10.2:1 comp. It might hit a little better in the low end and carry out a little further than the 46 but it will require some head work to accept the greater amount of lift. Stock heads can allow up to .510" lifts...
If you happy with what you have i would leave it alone.. I don't think the gain will be all that much unless you go to a stage II head but then again a stage II head will wake up that 46 as well...
Both cams will really do well with a bump in comp to at least 10:1..
The E5S which is listed @ .020" lift needs to be recalculated @ .053", If my calculations are correct,
I have it at 24/40-56/14, LSA is 104*, Duration is 242*/242* with 38* overlap, lifts @tdc of .230"/.125" with total lift @.544".
I would think this cam wold top out @10.2:1 comp. It might hit a little better in the low end and carry out a little further than the 46 but it will require some head work to accept the greater amount of lift. Stock heads can allow up to .510" lifts...
If you happy with what you have i would leave it alone.. I don't think the gain will be all that much unless you go to a stage II head but then again a stage II head will wake up that 46 as well...
Both cams will really do well with a bump in comp to at least 10:1..
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E5S specs @ 0.053 are actually 25/37 - 54/8, LSA being 104,5 (lobe centers 96&113) and overlap modest 33. Despite of early closing of the intake, E5S will top out somewhere at 10.5:1, mainly due to the different lobe geometry than anyone else has. And that's why this cam interests me. Even I am not gonna stick with stock CR, I am just curious to know, how low CR I could reasonably go with that cam. Early intake closing suggests, that I could pretty much use stock CR with this cam, but would it work that way also with E5S ?
I've done the headwork and beehives are purchased, so no worries in that sense.
Still, it would be nice to see dyno graphs for better understanding how torque curves typically settle with this cam.
I've done the headwork and beehives are purchased, so no worries in that sense.
Still, it would be nice to see dyno graphs for better understanding how torque curves typically settle with this cam.
Last edited by JSmedby; Apr 13, 2019 at 12:32 AM.
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From: Poolville
MY leineweber charts don't give me *@ .053" of lift and I was basing some of my calculations from the T5S just for a comparison.. As for a 37*ivc i wouldn't be bring the comp to 10.5. that would bring your ccp to 206 psi.... 10.2 would be tops for that cam and 10.0 would work very well... Can you post a link to the Leinweber charts you have? Thanx....
And yeah, A graph would tell all.
And yeah, A graph would tell all.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Ohio
Old school power like Dave Mackie cams.
Go back to the basics of Harley engine building, you have 37 intake close which should be a compression builder but your mentioning of the lobe center design will allow 10.5-1 compression and interesting. Normally 37 with 10.5-1 is a disaster with detonation and hard hot starts but the lobe center is basically moving the intake closing later and allowing the higher compression. It is safe to say there is no magical cam that has the ability to run 10.5-1 on the edge with today's gas and still be effective at 8.5-1, cams numbers like the E5S, W6 and EV27 but will be a improvement at 8.5-1 over stock but this is EV13 numbers area.
Cam companies like Leineweber, Mackie have been around a while, dyno's just wasn't a major player with old school Harley owners with carbs and most likely going to be hard finding some sheets, the EV27, W6 has carried over into the world of EFI dyno tuning and is a good tool but try and tell one of the old dudes with the screw driver turning screws he needs to put it on a dyno, prepare yourself for salty answer.
Pretty sure your just wanting to get a cam that can have some impact now and expandable for the future instead of buying 2 cams which is understandable
Go back to the basics of Harley engine building, you have 37 intake close which should be a compression builder but your mentioning of the lobe center design will allow 10.5-1 compression and interesting. Normally 37 with 10.5-1 is a disaster with detonation and hard hot starts but the lobe center is basically moving the intake closing later and allowing the higher compression. It is safe to say there is no magical cam that has the ability to run 10.5-1 on the edge with today's gas and still be effective at 8.5-1, cams numbers like the E5S, W6 and EV27 but will be a improvement at 8.5-1 over stock but this is EV13 numbers area.
Cam companies like Leineweber, Mackie have been around a while, dyno's just wasn't a major player with old school Harley owners with carbs and most likely going to be hard finding some sheets, the EV27, W6 has carried over into the world of EFI dyno tuning and is a good tool but try and tell one of the old dudes with the screw driver turning screws he needs to put it on a dyno, prepare yourself for salty answer.
Pretty sure your just wanting to get a cam that can have some impact now and expandable for the future instead of buying 2 cams which is understandable
Last edited by 1997bagger; Apr 13, 2019 at 08:28 AM.
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From: Ohio
Ya, I keep coming up with 56 intake close making stock compression needing a pusher vehicle to take off
Last edited by 1997bagger; Apr 13, 2019 at 08:44 AM.
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MY leineweber charts don't give me *@ .053" of lift and I was basing some of my calculations from the T5S just for a comparison.. As for a 37*ivc i wouldn't be bring the comp to 10.5. that would bring your ccp to 206 psi.... 10.2 would be tops for that cam and 10.0 would work very well... Can you post a link to the Leinweber charts you have? Thanx....
And yeah, A graph would tell all.
And yeah, A graph would tell all.
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Thread Starter
|
Novice
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Finland
Old school power like Dave Mackie cams.
Go back to the basics of Harley engine building, you have 37 intake close which should be a compression builder but your mentioning of the lobe center design will allow 10.5-1 compression and interesting. Normally 37 with 10.5-1 is a disaster with detonation and hard hot starts but the lobe center is basically moving the intake closing later and allowing the higher compression. It is safe to say there is no magical cam that has the ability to run 10.5-1 on the edge with today's gas and still be effective at 8.5-1, cams numbers like the E5S, W6 and EV27 but will be a improvement at 8.5-1 over stock but this is EV13 numbers area.
Cam companies like Leineweber, Mackie have been around a while, dyno's just wasn't a major player with old school Harley owners with carbs and most likely going to be hard finding some sheets, the EV27, W6 has carried over into the world of EFI dyno tuning and is a good tool but try and tell one of the old dudes with the screw driver turning screws he needs to put it on a dyno, prepare yourself for salty answer.
Pretty sure your just wanting to get a cam that can have some impact now and expandable for the future instead of buying 2 cams which is understandable
Go back to the basics of Harley engine building, you have 37 intake close which should be a compression builder but your mentioning of the lobe center design will allow 10.5-1 compression and interesting. Normally 37 with 10.5-1 is a disaster with detonation and hard hot starts but the lobe center is basically moving the intake closing later and allowing the higher compression. It is safe to say there is no magical cam that has the ability to run 10.5-1 on the edge with today's gas and still be effective at 8.5-1, cams numbers like the E5S, W6 and EV27 but will be a improvement at 8.5-1 over stock but this is EV13 numbers area.
Cam companies like Leineweber, Mackie have been around a while, dyno's just wasn't a major player with old school Harley owners with carbs and most likely going to be hard finding some sheets, the EV27, W6 has carried over into the world of EFI dyno tuning and is a good tool but try and tell one of the old dudes with the screw driver turning screws he needs to put it on a dyno, prepare yourself for salty answer.
Pretty sure your just wanting to get a cam that can have some impact now and expandable for the future instead of buying 2 cams which is understandable
By looking at the pics, lobe design of E5S is almost square, so it will open valves in full, almost instantly, within "few" degrees. To me, this design looks different what I'm used to.
I'am not actually looking for an expandable, or universal cam for supporting my possible future setups, but always trying to find best cam for the exact setup I build. If cam has to be changed, that's not an issue as new cam cost is just $250 or so, and some small amount of work for me; maybe 1.5 hours + bleeding times.
As this is hobby, I am not that much into mainstream, but rather want to research and try (and error) something new. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun...
Some internet pictures of E5S lobes. Valve opening looks pretty brutal to me..:-)
Last edited by JSmedby; Apr 15, 2019 at 02:18 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,076
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From: Poolville
I think this one is going to be a wash. Compression will always "ALWAYS"... aid in the entire power band. More compression= More Power... However, there are many cam characteristics that will determine where the power will be made but it needs the proper compression to release it... Both cams will have early cylinder fill with both iv's opening@25*. Yes you can bring the E5s to 10.5 but keep in mind the corrected compression will be 9.77:1/206 ccp and the EV46 will be 9.61:1/201 ccp. This alone will make a difference in tuning the bike properly in which I suggest you get an AFR meter to aid in properly tuning your motor. If you take a close look at the cam characteristics you will see that even though the E5S has greater overall lift, I think the duration of the EV46 will accomplish close to the same power band (but only a dyno will tell) not only that I also think the 46 will carry out further than the E5S (which will put more are under the curve) and will also be easier on the valve train.. Square lobes are harder to keep quite and the E5S is known not to carry out into the higher rpm ranges. Now look at the LSA With the E5S @104.5 and the EV46 @101 the 46 should come on sooner, especially with higher compression. I'm not trying to deter you on cam selection however I think you should do the increase in compression and a dyno tune on the 46 and then swap the cams and do the same with the E5s. It truly is the only way to really confirm any improvement.
As you said "As this is hobby, I am not that much into mainstream, but rather want to research and try (and error) something new. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun..."
Will be paying close attention as I'm a into experimentation as well..
As you said "As this is hobby, I am not that much into mainstream, but rather want to research and try (and error) something new. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun..."
Will be paying close attention as I'm a into experimentation as well..