EVO All Evo Model Discussion

98 Road King MMI intermittent sputter, die, will not restart

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Old Sep 8, 2020 | 11:25 PM
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Default 98 Road King MMI intermittent sputter, die, will not restart

98 Road King with 42k miles and original MMI with Power Commander 5. Bike has been running great with many long road trips without issue. This past weekend going 80 down highway it sputtered a few times, then went back to running good. Later, it did this again where it sputtered once then immediately went back to normal. I pulled onto a road and maintained 30 MPH and it was sputtering bad, Then it died and would not restart. It just turned over. 15 Minutes later it started right up. It still occasionally sputtered on my 60 Mile trip home home.It did this last year but stopped for 6 Months, and now doing this again. Suggestions (other than swap to carb) ?
 

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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 12:03 AM
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You most likely have a piece of tank liner that released and is blocking fuel filter sock.
It floats into position..sputters and floats away...repeat.
The other two possibilities are loose cam position sensor CONNECTOR. Just check connector.
​​​​​or CAM POSITION SENSOR melting.
All three can be checked easily and two can be resolved without replacement of parts.
CAM POSITION SENSOR MELTING can even be seen just by looking under floor board at timer cover area for beige sealant leaking





 
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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 12:46 AM
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My tank liner was plugging everything up. I stripped it out and did not re-line. It's not too hard due to the large panel on the tank that gives you access.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 08:58 AM
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I know it's not the tank liner because I had tank painted last year and expected to see rust, but the liner looked new. Bike only had 9k on it when purchased. 42k now. The cam position sensor was replaced 2 years ago because it was melting, but I will check again. Thanks
.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 10:22 AM
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Never assume that just because you replaced or inspected something in the past, it isn't possible to be the problem now.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 05:58 PM
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Below is a copy paste.
Check and recheck.
Just because something was done means nothing.
Trust but verify.

-COMMON...Two fuel hoses under tank leak after 10 years. Harley $$$$$$$, Goodridge HDFL005 under $160 USA dollars or LESS total for BOTH if you check google .

The Goodridge lines are less than half the price of the Harley parts and are of good quality.

2-COMMON..speedometer LCD (odometer screen bleed). requires replacement when unable to read miles ridden. NOT PLUG AND PLAY LIKE NEWER ONES. You can get a sub-harness wire assembly from J & P cycle catalog and then use a 1999 speedometer plug and play speedometer.

Easy changeover with no splicing of wires required. Old speedometer is a different manufacturer from the newer ones.

Note that mileage is stored in speedometer itself not in ECM.

Some folks send old speedometer out to specialty shops in order to change-out the LCD.
3-COMMON..Cam position sensor...very difficult starting, lots of cranking but does not catch. A lot of cranking and no start then you wait a second and a quick tap to start button and it starts with very little cranking…look for visible goo (beige) leak under timer cone (right foot) at black wire exit from bottom of cone…You will have plenty of warning…dozens and dozens of difficult starts.
4-CRANK position sensor by oil filter (RARE) but if you use a power commander the signal must be 100%..This is very rare.
5-(MEDIUM COMMON)Tank liner releases at middle section near fuel pump..blocks flow of fuel..loss of power, slow down and piece moves from fuel inlet so bike is OK but then becomes trapped again so cycle repeats.. FREE REPAIR..open gas tank access lid, drain fuel and clean piece out..I would carry the little bit required to remove screw..The book says you need to replace the one time use screws but if you are careful and replace in the same location it will be re-usable at least one time..
6- VERY COMMON...ENGINE TEMPERATURE SENSOR...very common, general rough riding as bike bucks from cold to hot rapidly..$100 part…As an emergency by-pass just disconnect the idle control behind air filter when bike is off/at rest..You will need to hold throttle.


7- Bikes that are pressure washed or in snow conditions with salt roads or people that added a power commander and destroyed the rubber boot at ECM..GROUNDING PIN ON ECM becomes corroded and requires cleaning.
8-The little chrome cover cap thing with the allen bolt on the starter end will get loose one time and you will chase the rattle a long time until you figure out that under the cover is two 0.15 cent nuts and one is lost.
***-The shift linkage ends SUCK on all harleys and you need to change those yesterday to heim joints look on ebay if on a budget for: Heim Joint Rod End 5/16" with bolts for Harley Davidson as they should be about $10-$15 delivered for both.
****VERY IMPORTANT...THE CRANK POSITION SENSOR USES AN INSERT TWIST AND LOCK CONNECTION. MAKE 100% sure it is tight, zip tied and secure and then tie it one more time.. Located at throttle side of frame behind the PAINTED plastic side cover by seat (remove cover) and hidden by the triangle portion of frame..connector is black and about 2 or 3 inches long and the thickness of a fat pencil.
That thing had me scratching my head for a long time trying to chase an intermittant cut-off over bumps. Side of the road frustration thing..Many shops are unable to identify the simple problem while others waste your money by replacing it when it was only loose.

THE PARTS ARE READILY AVAILABLE for this bike with the exception of the gas tank from either the dealer or aftermarket.


I would imagine you have the service book or will get the service book for this bike from Harley for 99483-98 . Finally get the book read chapter 9. You can review check engine codes with no tools by following a simple sequence.

I would review the fuel lines. If you do NOT have the goodridge lines HDFL005 then I would consider carrying some in your saddle bag. Rarely does a dealer stock the Harley ones.

Additional notes:

Consider using regular Dyno oil as the synthetics are too good at locating leaks.

Check the allen bolt at the transmission shift lever. The shift lever that attaches to the transmission spline/shaft. People forget to check that allen/hex bolt and then the splines on the lever get chewed.

Shaft is harder than lever so the lever will strip. Major labor to remove the outer primary, inner primary, and clutch hub just to replace the lever on that year of bike just because someone did not inspect that allen/hex bolt.

The throttle PULL cable might eventually give-up the throttle cable end ball. My cable had a few strands broken off at the little ball inside throttle clamp. It eventually snapped while on a road trip. Required switching return for pull cable in a parking lot. I would review and consider changing Throttle, Brake and Clutch cable if they are original.

There is a bracket 65619-98 called something like exhaust bracket tab located right at top of starter. Supports rear cylinder exhaust pipe right at starter. It sometimes breaks after 20 years right at the “L”..right at the clamp . Most people fail to look at it until further more costly problems develop instead of addressing the under $10 USA dollar part and saving future headaches and cost..

That bike era does not due well with rear swingarm lowering blocks. Check for and consider removal of rear lowering blocks if someone used them. They increase probability of rear swing arm crack since they alter shock angle. Blocks change in shock position at bottom and that appears to stress swingarm in my opinion.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 06:39 PM
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I read recently about the fuel lines inside the tank may rub out a hole causing intermittent problems.Something else to check.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2020 | 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by smorris65
98 Road King with 42k miles and original MMI with Power Commander 5. Bike has been running great with many long road trips without issue. This past weekend going 80 down highway it sputtered a few times, then went back to running good. Later, it did this again where it sputtered once then immediately went back to normal. I pulled onto a road and maintained 30 MPH and it was sputtering bad, Then it died and would not restart. It just turned over. 15 Minutes later it started right up. It still occasionally sputtered on my 60 Mile trip home home.It did this last year but stopped for 6 Months, and now doing this again. Suggestions (other than swap to carb) ?
Start simple - disconnect the PowerCommander and see what happens. There are several simple things it could be. EVOs were known to have engine temp sensors go crazy and could do what you are experiencing. Do you have any way to monitor data?
 
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Old Sep 10, 2020 | 09:25 AM
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I may have found the problem. At least I did find something to fix.Could these exposed wired on crank position sensor cause the type problem I described?
 
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Old Sep 10, 2020 | 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by smorris65
I may have found the problem. At least I did find something to fix.Could these exposed wired on crank position sensor cause the type problem I described?
oh yeah
 
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