I understand the S&S decision, however my math tells me that the extra cost is basically buying an extended warranty.

I could almost buy two Ultima 107s for the price of a 107 S&S.

If I choose to upgrade/freshen the orginal evolution engine, and try to increase it by increasing bore, there is the risk of thinnning out the casings too much, and Ive heard of one bored to a 96 cracking.

So in my mind, the only other safe and cost effective option for more than 90hp is to go Ultima.

Which is why i posted the question.... looking for Ultima users, and their longer term experiences at the 100 to 113 size. I wanted to know which one to go with.

A guy I know who built custom bikes used them all the time, his fear with the 113, is the longer stroke which can cause issues longer term.

I am looking for one that I can put 15,000 miles on per year.

I decided to start a new thread on this subject to get more focussed feedback.

 

Put about 6K on my 113 this year. Aside from a pesky intake leak at the beginning, it has been trouble free. Don't beat it, but I do enjoy running it through it's power band. Would do it again in a heartbeat.

Oh yeah, get a 6 speed if you don't already have one. Those 15K mies will glide by....

 

We all have to make our own decisions on what we buy, but you are getting over 50 years of experience with an S&S (my 107 is badged as an anniversary edition). Ultima are new kids on the block and may have improved their engines since I made my choice, but their quality and reliability remains a doubt in my mind. I am also on the other side of the pond and they ain't got any support over here, whereas S&S does.

On tuning Evos I commented on here how boring them was unwise but I had stroked mine. This prompted Scott of Hillsidecycle to chip in that the expertise was available to tune Evos without stroking, but I can't find that thread! So that may be an alternative worth looking into and you could contact Scott.

If you need any help spending your money we will be pleased to help!

 

mesmater,

I am completely satisfied with my Ultima 107". I sometimes wish i had went with a 127 or 120, but then i think why ? i have all the power I need to keep up with anybody. i have a little over 20,000 on my 107, would have more miles but i have 3 bikes. no problems other than a ignition module and oil pump. the oil pump was my fault. i changed the motor to a 95 eglide from a 90 eglide and didnt pull and clean the oil tank. anyway, here is another thread posted by Beast similar to your post.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/evo-c...r-results.html

later.........

 

Ultima did have some problems with a few items. The suppliers sent them items that were out of spec on some and an assembler was taking a few shortcuts on others. Both have been rectified. If you have any questions or concerns send me an E-Mail with your phone number and I will call you and answer all of your questions to the best of my ability.

 

I can't tell you about the complete assembled engines. I put together a 140" Ultima from their parts catalog and ran it for a season in Ahdra and the only problem was 2 bad lifters.

 

Your best bet, regardless of what route you choose, is to order the engine unassembled and have a good engine builder build it right from the start, checking every tolerance. Any assembled crate is going to be thrown together on an assembly line.

The Ultimas appear to be good engines that have had most of their teething problems worked out, a friend of mine runs a 120 and loves it, but he doesn't pile the miles on.

From what I've read, Ultima/ Midwest is pretty damn good about sending out replacement parts to those that have trouble, even to some out of warranty.

I agree with you, the S&S is not worth the extra money, IMO. Maybe things have changed in the past couple of years, but I remember seeing issues in plenty of S&S crates in years past, they are not a fully blueprinted engine, just a group of good aftermarket parts.

90HP is just getting warmed up for an 80. 100HP is easily reachable with headwork and the right selection of parts. 110-120HP reliably with stock cases and head castings (ported) is achievable if know what you're doing.

That being said, 15K is kinda vague. How much power do you want? What kind of bike and riding? How often are you willing to open the thing up? And replace parts? Aftermarket clutch? Aftermarket Starter, Battery, and Cables? Consider these parts mandatory with 100+HP unless you like frequent maintenance and breakage. No Hi-po engine is going to last like a stocker. Not going to ride it that hard so that shouldn't be an issue? Then stick with an 80. What kind of bike? A non rubber mount bike is going to vibe pretty good with a big inch motor, or even a built 80, for that matter. Not being able to use your mirrors gets old pretty quick.

Going fast with big horsepower takes big money in the HD world. Unless you want a bike that is difficult to start, temperamental, and eats parts frequently.

Don't let me scare you out of building as much horsepower as you dream of, but believe me, there is no such thing as a free lunch with Hi-po V-twins. There are a few people who sucessfully ride big HP bikes reliably and enjoyably, but there are twice as many who hate their big power bikes because they nickle and dime them to death, and are constantly giving them problems.

If you want a bike that you can put 15K+ a year on without worry, build a 80-107" motor with around 9.5:1 to 10:1 compression and good headwork that puts out 100-110 HP and Torque, throw an Ultima 6-speed behind it with an aftermarket clutch, starter and ring gear, and best battery you can get, and ride the **** out of it. If you stay a bit milder you might be able to get away with an extra plate clutch and HD spring, if you don't slip it.

Don't forget the biggest oil cooler you can find, and Synthetic oil. If you are going to ride it hard, I would allow for one or two belt changes a year if you run wide belts, or swap to a chain final.

Anyway, I blabbed quite a bit about lots of stuff unrelated to your original question, I've just seen too many people turn their bikes into unridable money pits when they get bit by the horsepower bug.

 

I must be one of the few who havent jumped on the s&s bandwagon, I personally think they make a sub par product, My brother had a s&s 107 on a titan, and it puked oil from day one out of the breather, Checked everything, even tearing the motor apart looking for taper in the bores or a broken ring, went with a over bore, bike quit puking for about 2500 miles and then started again, and sold the bike, As far as ultima motors, they are in my back yard, and i will tell you that theyve had some growing pains with parts and assembly, but they are hatching that out and guy here in a local club has a ultima 127 that he BEATS ON...and i mean beats it up, and its still together, So if i had to choose, ultima would get my vote. chad.

 

Some of us expect more than that for our bucks - like a motor that does what it says on the tin and doesn't need replacement parts or warranty support halfway round the block!

From what has been said so far we should all stick with stock Harley motors!

 

Im and s/s man.Theyve been around forever it seems(not really but).There american,and there tough.The ultima products ive had come through the shop have all been junk,Belt drives,clutches,etc.. To be fair ive only had one customer who ran an ultima engine,and it was a 120 and a pure piece o sh%^.Leaking cases,chrome peeling,etc.All with in the first 1500 miles.I guess when it all boils down its like choosing a blonde or brunette.I do belive this though,if its cheaper,its usally cheaper.