i run a s&s 96" motor in iy 98model... its very strong on the lower end... it has plenty of pep for 2up ...think hp is around 97and tq is 106.. i put a fluid balancer on the crank and on the clutchpack,, works for me.. good luck with what you choose

 

I have absoulutely no advice on this topic as I am still cranking my stock evo.

But I did want to tell you that 115k is AWESOME!!! Congratulations and keep it going!

 

The chap who built my stroker at around 30k miles warned me my rods would likely have stretched. I don't remember the precise values but they were around 1-3 thou out, so he honed them and fitted oversize rollers. He reckoned that once done they would last a very long time. The next motor he did after mine they were a lot more out of round.

Frankly anything done to that motor is likely to wreck the bottom end pretty soon, so it needs a rebuild from the bottom up. It is tempting to tune it along the way, but where do you stop?! As for buying a new Ultima to strip and rebuild I think we have addressed that enough in a nearby string. That just increases costs substantially and replaces a proven reliable motor for one that can't make that claim!

 

Thanks for the inputs. The difference in them was expected and pretty much sums up the thoughts (and indecision) I’ve been having. Stroke vs. no stroke, larger bore vs. cleaning up the jugs I have and changing pistons, complete rebuild vs. top end, etc.

I always figured I’d notice the return of some power by doing a simple rebuild in its current 80” configuration, but the bike has always been underpowered at highway speeds into the wind. To compensate I needed to lay into the throttle and the gas mileage responded accordingly, some times as low as 23 - 25 miles to the gallon! Sometimes it could not handle 5th gear and needed to be run 4th with an rpm increase to compensate. These being the worst case scenarios - NOT fun riding in those situations.

Because of that I pretty much have my mind made up to increase the cubic inches. I’ve always heard that because of the lack of oxygen at altitude one needs more cubic inches to make up for it. That’s why I listed where I live, we do not have the same air that the sea level bikes do. I’ve had times up in the Rockies where I thought I was down a cylinder the bike was so unresponsive. Again it was when I had a head wind to deal with but these roads (and corresponding speeds) were much less then the 80 – 85mph highway speeds I spoke of earlier.

So now how do I do this? As far as budget, the Ultima 124” was advertised through Jireh cycles at $4000 so let’s start with that amount. I can handle the assembly but not the machining, and do not have a trusted source for machining locally. I had an old school automotive machine shop help with the Shovel’s machining but they have since closed down.

The Ultima 124” is “advertised” as everything I need, more then I need actually, but it’s better to have too much and not use it then have too little. The problem is they cannot produce the motor? Jireh started advertising this motor last summer and as of today, are still unable to get one from Ultima??

S&S offers their 107T touring motor but they are very proud of their stuff ($$$). The 124” is even more. I’m thinking I can do a quality rebuild/upgrade on what I have for less then what they want for their motors. That’s what makes the Ultima’s so tempting; prices comparable to rebuild prices…but then there is the reliability issues.

Pajoe, how many miles do you have on your 113” and have you had any issues? Jireh is offering 80” – 127” motors (not the 124” though) for $3500 but again I question the longevity.

Prodrag – you did not mention any head work but I imagine something needs to be done with that increase in cubes? And to bore the stock cases to accommodate 3 13/16th inch jugs is more then I would have ever imagined the stock cases could take. That is good to know.

And speaking of head work, I’m really starting to here “something” in the heads if I run up the rpm. They are quiet below 3500rpm but get a bit noisy above!! Whether its weak springs, worn lifters, worn rocker shafts, or a combination of all 3 I have no idea but the more I put these thoughts down, the more my original idea of changing base gaskets and rings seams…….illogical (aka stupid).

T150vej – Rod webbings have stretched? What causes this? I would guess rpm, which this motor has not seen much of. Any insight would be appreciated. And if I understand you correctly, your recommendation for lower rpm touring power is stroke (bottom) vs. boring (top), the opposite of what Prodrag is recommending which brings me right back to my dilemma…which is better?? Or is it a “6 in one hand, half dozen in the other” kinda deal?? A new stroker kit would solve this stretched webbing you speak of. When you say a stroked evo should stay away from high compression, how high are we talking? Are there any recommended kits to keep me from piecing this together, increasing the risk of a screw up? The only kits I know of are S&S but are their others?

I’d like to lose the fuel injection to use the 6 gallon tank. What would be the best (reliable) ignition to go to if I was to do this?

And Bretfullthrottle, I played with an idea like yours but can’t bring myself to do it. I read on a Shovelhead forum once where a guy sprayed some kind of solvent/degreaser around his base gaskets, blew that out with his air compressor, then blew sealant into the gaps and stopped his leaks until he could tear it down. Mine are so bad I’d probably blow the sealant in one side and out the other!!(that’s a joke)

 

as far as heads would go on the 3.812 x 4.25 (97"er),a port job would help,but if your just looking for pulling power,a good clean up & 1.900 int valves would be fine.we do a competition valve job on our SERDI 100 with a bowl cutter to open stock heads up for 1.900 int valves and we radius the ex seat,heads flow around what a stock SE head would flow without the expense of a full port job.boring stock cases for 3.812 cylinders isnt a prob at all,done it a million times with no probs

 

Yes, the crankpin end will stretch but a new replacement rod will do it just the same. Most I've torn down wear about .0002 per 60K miles with a stock 1-hole crankpin and with most, the webbing was stretched about double that amount. Thing is, once they've done that, you must either hone them for oversize or replace the races (which requires sizing just the same) and they don't stretch anymore to speak of. So as far as OEM rods, you're actually better off with a properly sized used rod than a brand new one. And I do recommend a 3-oil hole crankpin no matter what you go back with...

You can run high compression with a stroker - most do. But I was offering my opinion based on the notion this bike is subject to roll out one morning and "do the numbers" day in and day out for weeks on end. (?) And that includes traveling through places where the fuel is often less than desireable. I won't debate the better "end" to add inches, but that is where more power comes from - more inches. It's my belief that doing it on the "heavy" end allows for milder mods (or none) on the top with greater gains and better reliability than trying to get it all from just the top.

Truett & Osborne sells a heavier than stock flywheel assembly (Torquemonster) in stock or "stroked" version with H-beam rods, 5-piece flywheel, assembled, trued and balanced for about $1k. I have no experience with their rods but can attest their wheels are top-notch. With the heavy wheels, they can use a smaller balance factor which gives wider sweet spots of smooth rpms than using light wheels balanced with a high factor to compensate for radical compression like most guys want to run. That may be an option of consideration since your Shovel wrench isn't working anymore. All that would remain would be to lap and re-fit the pinion bearing and fit a new main bearing.

25 MPG on a tour bike? I'm surprised it wasn't left in a bar-ditch somewhere between Cuba and Bloomfield

 

Charlie,

You have asked a lot of questions! They will create even more answers. The way I ended up rebuilding my evo into a stroked 89" was finding a good man I could talk things through with and he formulated a recommended build. Can you find an engine man in your area? Someone who knows high altitude well and can work you through all these ideas and help you zero in on a solution. You might be surprised with what he comes up with!

We all have our own ideas here and will happily help you spend your money, given half a chance, but we don't have to live with the consequences!

Best wishes from across the pond!

 

We have about 10,000 miles on our Ultima 113, one season. It does have some tapping noise in the front cylinder that I am concerned about, but Dr Dyno said I was probably just noticing it more because it was a bagger with lowers ect. I bought new rocker gaskets to open it up and look, but never got around to it.

I don't think anything will hold up as well as a stock engine.

 

I have a 95, carbed evo that has been stroked to 89 cubes. It also has had the heads ported and fitted to an Edelbrock intake manifold. The work was all done in Albuquerque by a place called Gearheads. I have a six speed and it takes a really big hill to make me downshift, if I keep it above 2800 rpm. He is not listed in the phone book, so if you wish to contact him, pm me and I will give you his number.

 

Great info…thanks!!

Can I find a good engine man in my area you ask? Last year one local shop owner actually told me the story I told about the bike and its miles was “impossible” and he was very adamant about it!! I just smiled and said “I have no reason to lie and it’s out leaking in your parking lot right now”? He then tried selling me a set of mufflers that he guaranteed (said he had the dyno results to prove it) would give me a 30hp gain? So a high mileage (any mileage) 60hp motor can get a 50% gain in hp just by just changing the mufflers?? Another guy was in there complaining about how they left his transmission empty after they did his service. I walked out. Another told me the base gasket leaks were affecting the internal breathing of the motor? He then rambled on about some other mindless nonsense. There was another who helped me when it came to the then “mystery” of splitting and reassembling the cases but he wouldn’t touch it because it was a Shovel. I really appreciated his advice and I’d stop by and order some parts through him from time to time. His advice for the Evo was mill the heads….that’s it. He too, just like my old school automotive machine shop, is now closed. Another actually laughed in my face after I bought my FLT basket case (I was asking for maching work) and said my Evo would be able to accelerate faster from a dead stop in 3rd gear. The only part of that project he wanted was to sell me an S&S 124 for my RK. He was wrong about that and eventually got busted for selling stolen bikes. One thing I’ve found around here is most shops simply buy generic, one size fits all kits from their distributers and install them. I can do this! There is little to no real machining or engine design for specific purposes, like a heavy touring bike vs. a lighter speedster. And any advice they may have is all centered on the kits or parts they can get, and limitations to their tooling. I’ll bet one of them would rather sell me a new set of rods because they do not have the capability to rebuild the old ones, as t51vej suggest. I’m here looking for other options then what I can order out of a J&P or CCI catalog. There is one old school place down in Albuquerque that’s been open since the early 70’s and does do machining, but I’ve been warned about them and some of their work. The time I did spend with them one common theme I kept hearing was “it doesn’t matter, it’s a Shovel”!? When it came to tolerances…”it doesn’t matter it’s a Shovel”. Personally, I don’t care what it is, tolerances are important to a motor. The local Harley shop is useless. And I made the huge mistake of sending some of my work off to Dragonman machining up in Colorado. If there is someone locally, I have not found them yet. A guy I work with took his Twin Cam into another shop downtown which he liked but they too only install parts, no machining or design. Galtjunk, I’ll Pm you for the info to Gearheads and go check them out. Do you remember exactly what they did and could you share that information?

t51vej, so I would not need to modify the heads if I stroke it? All performance upgrades I’ve looked up seem to start with the heads?

I looked up the S&S touring motor (107T) specifications and they kept the stock Evo stroke and did all their motor increase in the cylinders (4.25 x 4). So Graham, you’ve had both the stroked Evo (that you and your engine guy talked through and he formulated a recommended build) and now the 107?? Which is better and why? Probably not fair because the increase in cubes wins automatically.

Prodrag, do you have any dyno numbers for the mods you recommend? How about some mileage numbers that these motors have achieved?

And there are no bars (or anything else) between Cuba and Bloomfield. There is a tent the Indians have set up as a casino that may have a bar but I doubt it. When I’m towing the trailer I do stop for gas in Cuba…both ways…..to keep from leaving it in a ditch!! The Lucas oil treatment has helped with the gas mileage. I’m not a believer of any “mechanic in a can” but I can’t argue with the numbers. I’m passing through there today on my way to Durango, Co for the weekend. You guys have given me plenty to think about as I drive through the vast emptiness of Northwestern NM.