Talk about Torque!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,078
Likes: 2,150
From: Ohio
[QUOTE]
Opinions differ, I mentioned earlier that a proper built engine will handle it but my preference is not to because of my mechanical beleafs is the main reason. I currently could not replace it due to medically poor from my wife surviving breast cancer so other factors base on how many rpm's I want my engine to turn for extended periods of time.
Irongear, Do you have a theory on the origional topic. What gearing is optimal for torque based on 30 years experiance and what ratio is in your machines. Do you believe low gearing and the 6th gear good or bad. Is HD and automotive engineers theory of lowering cruise rpm's going in the wrong direction for the future.
Members here are very open to learning and your experiance can enlighten a group, itemizing members will only have them second guess themselves to post, not everyone was born with a wrench in their hand and try to learn from people like yourself.
Irongear, Do you have a theory on the origional topic. What gearing is optimal for torque based on 30 years experiance and what ratio is in your machines. Do you believe low gearing and the 6th gear good or bad. Is HD and automotive engineers theory of lowering cruise rpm's going in the wrong direction for the future.
Members here are very open to learning and your experiance can enlighten a group, itemizing members will only have them second guess themselves to post, not everyone was born with a wrench in their hand and try to learn from people like yourself.
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
I mentioned a Velocette earlier, which in the 1950-60s would just about manage 100mph on a good day, at max engine rpms of around 6,000 and with 34bhp. We reckoned back then that we could cruise at around 65-70mph on those bikes without causing them harm.
These days bike engines are built to far superior standards of engineering than those old Velos were 50 years ago. Any Harley should be able to cruise happily at around 65-70% of peak rpm all day every day and forever, without causing any harm, in other words at around 3,500rpm.
If you look at my graph at #6 you will see that represents road speeds few of us will actually use, largely because Harley has raised gearing to keep the noise police happy. By contrast my Dyna with a 21T compensator is travelling at 67mph at 3,500rpm, happy as it can be.
Higher engine speeds good, low engine speeds bad! These things have a lot of performance tied up in them which many owners can enjoy with just a few bucks spent lowering the gearing. Which takes us round full circle.
These days bike engines are built to far superior standards of engineering than those old Velos were 50 years ago. Any Harley should be able to cruise happily at around 65-70% of peak rpm all day every day and forever, without causing any harm, in other words at around 3,500rpm.
If you look at my graph at #6 you will see that represents road speeds few of us will actually use, largely because Harley has raised gearing to keep the noise police happy. By contrast my Dyna with a 21T compensator is travelling at 67mph at 3,500rpm, happy as it can be.
Higher engine speeds good, low engine speeds bad! These things have a lot of performance tied up in them which many owners can enjoy with just a few bucks spent lowering the gearing. Which takes us round full circle.
Last edited by grbrown; Oct 12, 2010 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Expanded.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: Tampa Fl
I read this entire thread and it sound's like from your stand point the 21T is the way to go. Baker offers the shorter chain with the 21T as the 22T,23T and the 24T uses the same stock chain.
My bike had heating issues before but since the head work was done it has ran very well and I guess it will handle this mod change just as well.
you spoke about engine noise and the reason Harley went to higher gearing to keep the sound down but my bike is already pretty loud.
Thanks for the advise, it was very good info.
My bike had heating issues before but since the head work was done it has ran very well and I guess it will handle this mod change just as well.
you spoke about engine noise and the reason Harley went to higher gearing to keep the sound down but my bike is already pretty loud.
Thanks for the advise, it was very good info.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: Tampa Fl
I didnt know this
I didnt know that this was true but another fourm member said the same thing today.
WOW, you can really learn a lot here.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: Trinity Al
As gearing goes. My jeep has 4:10's with 32" tires stock I want to go to 37" so I will go to 5:13's to make it closer to stock with larger tires. Higher the number slower the top speed is and higher RPM's are . Lower the number faster the top speed and lower the RPM's .
I think I layed it out right?
I think I layed it out right?
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
One of the ways Harley meet those regulations is by using very high gearing, so that at the road speeds the tests are measured, the bike meets the requirements. Most of us spend a lot of money tuning our bikes, when all that is needed is to reduce the gearing. Even on a bone stock bike that will give very cheap performance improvements.
So the first stage of tuning a new Harley should be to reduce gearing, thereby increasing torque IMHO. It is almost free! A 19% increase in torque on stock gearing costs a lot of money.
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
I confess I like to ride the Glide at higher speeds than my Dyna, so am less likely to change the gearing, although I would like more torque, especially when 2-up.
An alternative to reducing gearing is to fit a monster motor....
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
Here's another option ....
"Delkron's assembled 120" Complete Square Block engine (4.250" bore with 4.250" stroke) will fit the stock Harley-DavidsonŽ SoftailŽ (1999 & earlier) chassis as well as Harley-DavidsonŽ DYNA (1998 & earlier), FXR and FLT with no chassis modification.
Our 120" Square Block ships fully assembled and has all the components of our long block, but has been finished off with a recipe that has yielded a modest 121 HP and 138 lbs. of torque at the rear wheel. This is a complete plug and play system including carb and ignition. Just unplug your old tired Evo and hook this fire breather up to your stock charging system and driveline! Then HANG ON!"
Photo below
R/
'Chop
"Delkron's assembled 120" Complete Square Block engine (4.250" bore with 4.250" stroke) will fit the stock Harley-DavidsonŽ SoftailŽ (1999 & earlier) chassis as well as Harley-DavidsonŽ DYNA (1998 & earlier), FXR and FLT with no chassis modification.
Our 120" Square Block ships fully assembled and has all the components of our long block, but has been finished off with a recipe that has yielded a modest 121 HP and 138 lbs. of torque at the rear wheel. This is a complete plug and play system including carb and ignition. Just unplug your old tired Evo and hook this fire breather up to your stock charging system and driveline! Then HANG ON!"
Photo below
R/
'Chop
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 293
Likes: 7
I am quoting directly from a 09 book that I have in front of me right now.
Gear ratio...
5th 1.18
6th 1.00
I will concede I have no interest in the touring bikes, so for all I know they may be different. Or they may not. I have never had the interest to find out.