Hey all,

I introduced myself in the new guy section. Hopin' to get a basic direction here for trouble shooting. I try to do most of my wrenching, but I have a bit to learn too.

I have 75k miles on her, and did a top end about 5k miles ago. Have Screamin Eagle breather kit, Kuryakyn Wild Things Fuel Controller, plug and play mild torque cam, aftermarket slip-ons. Pistons were only 5000th over, stock compression.

Ran fine until about 6oo miles ago. When it's below 40 degrees, when I back off on the throttle, it revs at 20k for about 3 seconds, then backs down to 10k rpm. ONLY when it's colder than 40 degrees. No matter how warmed up the engine is.

Here's the other thing that started about 200 miles ago: when running with 1/8th throttle in 5th gear at 60mph or so, on a slight downhill, just downhill enough that it only takes 1/8 throttle to maintain 60, with no real load on the engine, when I twist the throttle to make a pass, it's like you turned the ignition switch off. It just goes "bwaaaah". Then if ya keep the throttle wide open, it'll cough and sputter, then take off wide open haulin' butt.

ONLY in the above situation does that happen. Runs great all day long until the above scenario takes place on a long slight downhill straight at 1/8th throttle and I go to twist the throttle to go faster.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance!

Wiz
Bikers Against Child Abuse

 

10 K and 20K? is that 1,000 and 2,000 RPM's?
The up at start and then down RPM sound like a normal warm-up..higher RPM at start and then a drop down. The "bwaaah" issue reads like a fuel issue.
1997? fuel injected? It is an M & M fuel injection system with two hoses below the tank to the throttle body..They leak after many years and/or breakdown internally and get a small hole..the small hole acts just like a hole in a drink straw..you get air and no soda...if hoses are original consider checking them for replacement...sit down because the two hoses are about $360 dollars total at the dealer but Goodridge makes some after market ones that are braided steel covered for less than 1/2 that amount. I have seen the Goodridge HDFL005 from $145 to $165 total for both....But rule-out your fuel adder first..

 

The other thing might be the engine temp sensor if the issue of the RPM is NOT at start up.
Basically the M & M system is rather simple:
The things that are most common are:
crank/cam sensor: bad start/difficult start, melted stuff by right foot under cone.
temp. sensor: weird idle, radical up and down RPM's
fuel hoses: leak just below tank at swivel or break down internally due to age.

 

In addition to all of the above, check all your connections. EFI works on voltage, if there are poor connections (don't forget the grounds) the voltage will vary the signal to the ECU causing all kinds of problems. Hope this helps.
John

 

I replaced my fuel filter, so I saw those hoses. Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no justification for that price from Harley. Thanks for the tip for Goodridge. And ya gotta love the "One Time Use" screws for the tank console at $20. Oh, wait, it's Harley.

The fast idle rev issue isn't at start up, it's headin' down the road after the engine is up to normal operating temp, and only when the weather is below 40 degrees. Chopping the throttle in a turn is fun, cuz the engine is still revving at 2,000rpm, so I get used to pulling in the clutch in corners since using engine braking doesn't work.

When the bike is cold at start-up, it doesn't idle past 1,000 RPM's. It's like the "choke" isn't working. I have to lock the throttle at 1,800 rpm till it warms up and the oil pressure drops to 20lb.

You mentioned "rule out my fuel adder first", by that ya mean the Kuryakyn Wild Things Controller? I'm gonna disconnect that on Friday. At least eliminate it as a potential problem. I picked it up from a guy on the Electra-Glide Forum on Delphi. I mainly see Power Commanders being used. Is the Kuryakyn a decent unit, or should I just replace it even if it is not the problem? I do a lot of long distance riding, $20k mile/yr, and I want reliability. With a mild cam, screamin eagle breather and slip ons, is a fuel adder needed?

Mucho thanks for your reply. I'm gonna get the gas lines just as a preventative measure. I've heard that before. In my limited knowledge of things, it seems that if the hoses were the problem, it would happen more consistantly, and not at just the one specific condition of running at 1/8 throttle with no load, and twisting the throttle. It does the "bwaa" thing, like zero fuel, then 3 seconds later starts getting fuel, sputtering, then hauls ***.

The other thing you mentioned is the cam sensor. I do have a yellow/brown hardened goo that leaked out of the cover throught the hole where the wire come out. It's been there for 4k miles. Bike ran fine until the last 800 miles or so. I thought the guy that put my cam in used some type of sealant. What would a bad cam sensor do? Thank you again for your input!

Wiz

 

Thanks, I'll do that when I disconnect the Wild Things Fuel Controller friday.

Wiz
BACA, Bikers Against Child Abuse

 

There is no suction hoses in a MM EFI, it is all pressure from the pump out, pump has a screen at the inlet and pressure all the way to the regulator with a return to the tank for unused fuel, new hoses are not needed.

Cam sensor fires the coil through the ECM, it would be wise to replace that sensor, they get hot and change shapes but oozing is going to wear out a pair of boots shortly by walking.

I can't pinpoint this problem but that bike should go to fast idle at start up which is controlled by the engine temperature sensor in cold mode signaling the stepper motor through the ECM, the ECM is locked at cold start up, changes timing and adds fuel until some heat is raised and then the ECM releases back to the sensors, fuel controllers are also locked out during this cold startup period.

I would fix the problems that are currently happening, melted cam sensor and engine not raising up at startup - this can be a sign of the ETS has failed which can cause crazy problems, test for a couple of things is the stepper motor should move out and back in at key on which will settle in to raise your idle at start up and go off as the engine warms up, no movement is a bad ETS or a failed stepper motor, hoping for a ETS failure in this test which can possibly be a cause in your current problem.

Some of other EFI guys can guide you through the ECM resetting procedure, it is worth a shot also as ECM's lose themselves sometimes, see it all of the time in my field.

That bike should still run with the Wild Thing unplugged so you can eliminate that possible source of failure and another thing to ponder upon, does that Wild Thing require the throttle to be calibrated like a Powercommander or FuelPack?

 

The above helped answer many of the questions he had that i was going to respond.
The fuel lines i was mentioning were the two below/outside the tank. The really expensive ones with the swivel type connection that go from under the tank to throttle body.
I think the only thing missed might be an air leak somewhere by the throttle body.

 

The Wild Thing is just a plug and play type module. Piggyback it on, and it just has 3 fuel adjustments like a carb.

Thanks for your input. Now that I know where the goo came from, I'll be replacing my cam sensor. No need in wearing out a pair of good Red Wing boot soles.

If the stepper motor isn't moving, how do ya test it to eliminate that as the problem, so I know if it is the engine temp. sensor?

Thanks again.

 

here is the link for future reference regarding cam position sensor change-out..the easy way for me was to cut a tiny piece of allen wrench and place it into the head of bolt..Turn the little piece off allen with a small carb. wrench.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...mer-cover.html