#OccupyHarley
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
Let me see if I understand.....
A company that builds a product (and offers a warranty) purposely conspires to manufacture an inferior product that will break more often and cost more to repair. That way the company can pay the dealers, which are NOT owned by the MOCO, for warranty repairs, and the customers can further enrich the dealers when the warranty runs out.
After 35 years in the automotive industry, I can assure you, this is not how it was planned.
A company that builds a product (and offers a warranty) purposely conspires to manufacture an inferior product that will break more often and cost more to repair. That way the company can pay the dealers, which are NOT owned by the MOCO, for warranty repairs, and the customers can further enrich the dealers when the warranty runs out.
After 35 years in the automotive industry, I can assure you, this is not how it was planned.
x2Arent preceptions funny...... They arent making bug spray.. It takes millions of dollars to develop a new product then even more to put it into production.. The Twin Cam started with good intentions, more modern and addressing little issues the EVO had. You know, valve train geometry, case weakness and such.. Emissions is a very large part of the drive to change a product. The Moco is doing everything in their power to avoid the water cooled design. I'm actually pretty surprised they dont have EGR on the new bikes yet. They are already severly lean to lower HC, which creates Nox, EGR is the easiest way to combat that, must be comming soon.. Bottom line, they are in the market to make money. The EVO design was paid for and a cash cow by the mid '90s, no other reason to change.. The soul-less boutique immage and business plan is what we mostly have the problem with and also started the other thread that this one was born from.. If the company stood for what is claims it does, I bet we'd all be fine with the Twinkie's, may not own them, but they arent that bad in themselves..
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 628
Likes: 14
From: Sweden via Bisbee, Az.
Let me see if I understand.....
A company that builds a product (and offers a warranty) purposely conspires to manufacture an inferior product that will break more often and cost more to repair. That way the company can pay the dealers, which are NOT owned by the MOCO, for warranty repairs, and the customers can further enrich the dealers when the warranty runs out.
After 35 years in the automotive industry, I can assure you, this is not how it was planned.
A company that builds a product (and offers a warranty) purposely conspires to manufacture an inferior product that will break more often and cost more to repair. That way the company can pay the dealers, which are NOT owned by the MOCO, for warranty repairs, and the customers can further enrich the dealers when the warranty runs out.
After 35 years in the automotive industry, I can assure you, this is not how it was planned.
The light bulb is purposely built to last only 1k hours. They purposely build it to not last longer. They had to reengineer the bulb in the 1920's because it lasted too long. The bulb as first designed lasted 25 years without issue. This is fact and not conjecture (research the Phoebus cartel). So the very idea of building crap on purpose is not new.
Two very good friends of mine worked as head mechanics at mega Harleys in SO.Cal. and AZ and both flat out said that their end is what keeps the dealership in heavy coin...the main bread winner.
So yes my friends. A company that can depend on repeat business is benefited by product that is inferior (most Harley buyers today I wager are buying a name, not the almost-rice-burner that it has become).
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,736
Likes: 1,524
From: Coromandel Peninsula New Zealand
Truth is EPA has very little to do with it, thats more of a getting you to buy. Or just saying thats the rules, In Arizona we have to emission test our bikes (EVEN MY 95) and Carb'ed EVO's make no more pollution than Twins, plus I get better gas mileage. "Tide" washing detergent has been the same for yrs, but every 6 months its "New and Improved" Harley is no different. Its called marketing. Remember back yrs ago when EVO's were new, the service department in those shops were small. Cause most people worked on them at home. Today their are 10 mechanics at least in every "Mega Hog". WHY? Because when you throw a bunch of unnecessary cams and EFI you need big expensive tools to work on them. More parts and more complicated a motor is the more likely it will fail. Which translates to more money for MoCo. Im just over it, and plan on buying every 5 grand EVO I can get my hands on. Maybe I'm way too passionate about this.
Nope, you just got your priorities right!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,736
Likes: 1,524
From: Coromandel Peninsula New Zealand
Having said that, H-D are not conspirators, all they are doing is trying to sell Hogs at a price that y'all can afford and expand their market to people who don't do their own wrenching....the Japanese have been doing that for years....as has the wider Automotive Industry.
They do what they need to do in order to survive and you would all be well pissed off if the US bike industry went down the pan and you had to ride Metric Cruisers...
They do what they need to do in order to survive and you would all be well pissed off if the US bike industry went down the pan and you had to ride Metric Cruisers...
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Here is a good read I'm sure many of you have already read. http://www.hdopenroad.com/guest-arti...e-sweet-years/
I am not trying to debate whats good and whats bad. The late yr EVO's were and still are pretty bullet prof. Here in AZ i ride over 30,000 miles a yr, Ill put it up against any twin cam for maintenance cost.
I think we all agree we'd like to see them do more for the image they sell. Bring things back to the way the used to be a little more. I cant think creating new American jobs is a bad marketing plan for them to look into. Im just tired of seeing all our jobs leaving our country. By a company that sells the American Image. I'd be interested in why people in other country's buy Harleys and how much image played in their choice of brands.
I am not trying to debate whats good and whats bad. The late yr EVO's were and still are pretty bullet prof. Here in AZ i ride over 30,000 miles a yr, Ill put it up against any twin cam for maintenance cost.
I think we all agree we'd like to see them do more for the image they sell. Bring things back to the way the used to be a little more. I cant think creating new American jobs is a bad marketing plan for them to look into. Im just tired of seeing all our jobs leaving our country. By a company that sells the American Image. I'd be interested in why people in other country's buy Harleys and how much image played in their choice of brands.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 36
From: Round Rock, TX
I definitely don't want to cause a rift here, but...
The light bulb is purposely built to last only 1k hours. They purposely build it to not last longer. They had to reengineer the bulb in the 1920's because it lasted too long. The bulb as first designed lasted 25 years without issue. This is fact and not conjecture (research the Phoebus cartel). So the very idea of building crap on purpose is not new.
Two very good friends of mine worked as head mechanics at mega Harleys in SO.Cal. and AZ and both flat out said that their end is what keeps the dealership in heavy coin...the main bread winner.
So yes my friends. A company that can depend on repeat business is benefited by product that is inferior (most Harley buyers today I wager are buying a name, not the almost-rice-burner that it has become).
The light bulb is purposely built to last only 1k hours. They purposely build it to not last longer. They had to reengineer the bulb in the 1920's because it lasted too long. The bulb as first designed lasted 25 years without issue. This is fact and not conjecture (research the Phoebus cartel). So the very idea of building crap on purpose is not new.
Two very good friends of mine worked as head mechanics at mega Harleys in SO.Cal. and AZ and both flat out said that their end is what keeps the dealership in heavy coin...the main bread winner.
So yes my friends. A company that can depend on repeat business is benefited by product that is inferior (most Harley buyers today I wager are buying a name, not the almost-rice-burner that it has become).
This leaves aside the fact that some guys trade every year or so, but the bike doesn't have to break for them to do that.
While our Evos are fairly bulletproof and extremely easy to work on, I think the twinkies are way ahead in reliability for the "turn the key and go" crowd. I don't have any warranty statistics for the two (and Harley probably guards them closely) but I'm guessing the twinkie compares favorably in that regard or we'd have seen some major design changes in the last decade.
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 310
Likes: 1
You got that right .We will all see a day when twin cams are stacked up like firewood in the junkyard just like the jap bikes. Why because there not worth fixin.
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Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 628
Likes: 14
From: Sweden via Bisbee, Az.
Here is another prime example of why I dig our Evo forum section. Anywhere else there would have been real nastiness going back and forth by now. Here, we really are sitting at our local, throwing back a few and having a serious talk about our rides.
LOVE IT!
Cheers to you all,
LOVE IT!
Cheers to you all,
