Primary sprockets question
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 461
Likes: 8
From: western CT
Looks like about 2760 and 2670, figuring 8% and 11% ratio drops respectively. FWIW, my ratios are the same as yours, and I run my bike 80-85 literally all day long. I'm talking 500-800 mile days. She is very happy at those revs. I think 85 is about 3400rpm. I wear earplugs to help with fatigue....... It's a thought.
Club Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,765
Likes: 7,801
From: SE Louisiana
The *** dyno is gonna feel the discarded torque and giddy up, that's for sure, but may not matter for you.
2700/70 with 27 according to the Big Boyz calc.
http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/Gearratio.htm
2700/70 with 27 according to the Big Boyz calc.
http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/Gearratio.htm
Last edited by Schex; Sep 16, 2014 at 07:33 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20,964
Likes: 7,496
From: Poolville
RPM Calculator
http://woodsware.aciwebs.com/gears/gears.asp
with a 140-90-16 tire
75mph was 2735rpm
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; Sep 15, 2014 at 09:31 PM. Reason: left out info
I'm considering this change as well. Did you get it done yet? If so how do you like it? And was Baker your parts source? Thanks
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 461
Likes: 8
From: western CT
gear and chain: P/N 159-56S, 249.00. Installation requires the later style adjuster and fat shoe kit. FTAK-DD6 62.50
Last edited by nyokie; Nov 2, 2014 at 10:51 AM.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 678
Likes: 1
From: LA
This topic started in a very confusing manner with mixed up names and tooth counts, and some equally confusing advice.
It's worth looking at a part catalogue to the terminology correct between front and rear pulleys and compensator and clutch shell sprockets.
Firstly, I'd disagree with grbrown on this one and say that, yes, what you really want is a 6 speed but an 'OD' (overdrive) gearqset.
That would give you exactly what you have now - for zip taking off and lulz - *plus* an extra overdrive for dropping into at high speed cruising.
The standard final gearing of DD (direct drive) is 1:1 ratio. The overdrive is .86:1 or even .80:1 (which is a big drop only recommended for big inch motors). It would also allow you the option of a longer (higher) first or even first and second gears.
Expensive but a better option.
To start chopping your gearing around incurs additional costs, e.g. gaskets, seals, labour, tools etc. You need to add that to your estimate.
So there are two other options;
a) you could do it using new pulleys and perhaps a belt. It depends. If you speak to DBL or Gates they will tell you exactly, e.g. going to a 34T front pulley only adds .25" and you have that much tolerance on your existing set up.
You *could* drop right down even to a 61T rear pulley ... but it will probably need a rear belt swap.
You could even drop right down to a 61T rear pulley *and* up to a 34T front pulley ... they are cheap, may be $75 for the front and Ebay (near nothing) for the rear as they are not popular. They are too high for most bikes. A 34T was a simple solution for bikes with too much torque to stop them spinning tyres.
34T + 61T is the extreme and would drop you down to, say, 2,500 rpm ... but I think it's not a great idea and it sounds to me you are heading towards lugging your engine. Lugging is some folks' habit but not good for an engine, even a strong engine, as it hits the drivechain most. You want to be spinning it a bit and keeping your self in the middle of your torque curve not just at the start of it. It equates to about 1 tooth on the belt difference.
I'd say johnjzjz's recipe is about right but you could go 34T + 65 ot 66T.
b) go for a chain drive conversion which will give you far greater adjustability in gearing. I am surprised no one mentioned this before. Once done, it would be much easier to swop gears/chain until you got it right.
However ... I still don't think it will solve your problem because your problem is something we all struggle with and that is a poorly conceived selection of transmission gears in combination with a compromised final drive (e.g. generally too high).
Therefore, I'd say you'd find the closest to nirvana you will get by going with a OD6 gearset with a long/high first gear and the highest overdrive AND ... wait for it ... may be a 65 or 66T rear pulley. Although you have not said it, I'd guess your first gear is too much right now and pretty pointless, e.g. you could almost start in 2nd.
Well, that's what the optional higher first gear fixes too (they call them " 'R' Ratio", e.g. 2.94 versus 3.24 1st ratio).
A final drive fix might achieve something as a cheap fix, the easiest being a 61T rear pulley (you don't say if you do all your own wrenching and have the tools required) but if I had the cash, I'd go for a Baker OD drive tomorrow.
The other solutions would be to a) buy a Goldwing or balanced V-twin cruiser, Rocket III etc, b) swop your engine for a less powerful, more gentle one. It sounds like you went too far with this one.
Do you live in the middle of Arizona or something? How much 70 to 85 mph flat land touring do you do?
Are you sure you just don't want to show off lugging your big *** engine around? What's the real problem ... noise ... vibes ... what? Pretty much the lowest of cams do not even come on to, say 2,500 or 2,800 and so I'd still say you want to be at the speed you want to be at around 3,000 or so rpm at the least.
It's worth looking at a part catalogue to the terminology correct between front and rear pulleys and compensator and clutch shell sprockets.
Firstly, I'd disagree with grbrown on this one and say that, yes, what you really want is a 6 speed but an 'OD' (overdrive) gearqset.
That would give you exactly what you have now - for zip taking off and lulz - *plus* an extra overdrive for dropping into at high speed cruising.
The standard final gearing of DD (direct drive) is 1:1 ratio. The overdrive is .86:1 or even .80:1 (which is a big drop only recommended for big inch motors). It would also allow you the option of a longer (higher) first or even first and second gears.
Expensive but a better option.
To start chopping your gearing around incurs additional costs, e.g. gaskets, seals, labour, tools etc. You need to add that to your estimate.
So there are two other options;
a) you could do it using new pulleys and perhaps a belt. It depends. If you speak to DBL or Gates they will tell you exactly, e.g. going to a 34T front pulley only adds .25" and you have that much tolerance on your existing set up.
You *could* drop right down even to a 61T rear pulley ... but it will probably need a rear belt swap.
You could even drop right down to a 61T rear pulley *and* up to a 34T front pulley ... they are cheap, may be $75 for the front and Ebay (near nothing) for the rear as they are not popular. They are too high for most bikes. A 34T was a simple solution for bikes with too much torque to stop them spinning tyres.
34T + 61T is the extreme and would drop you down to, say, 2,500 rpm ... but I think it's not a great idea and it sounds to me you are heading towards lugging your engine. Lugging is some folks' habit but not good for an engine, even a strong engine, as it hits the drivechain most. You want to be spinning it a bit and keeping your self in the middle of your torque curve not just at the start of it. It equates to about 1 tooth on the belt difference.
I'd say johnjzjz's recipe is about right but you could go 34T + 65 ot 66T.
b) go for a chain drive conversion which will give you far greater adjustability in gearing. I am surprised no one mentioned this before. Once done, it would be much easier to swop gears/chain until you got it right.
However ... I still don't think it will solve your problem because your problem is something we all struggle with and that is a poorly conceived selection of transmission gears in combination with a compromised final drive (e.g. generally too high).
Therefore, I'd say you'd find the closest to nirvana you will get by going with a OD6 gearset with a long/high first gear and the highest overdrive AND ... wait for it ... may be a 65 or 66T rear pulley. Although you have not said it, I'd guess your first gear is too much right now and pretty pointless, e.g. you could almost start in 2nd.
Well, that's what the optional higher first gear fixes too (they call them " 'R' Ratio", e.g. 2.94 versus 3.24 1st ratio).
A final drive fix might achieve something as a cheap fix, the easiest being a 61T rear pulley (you don't say if you do all your own wrenching and have the tools required) but if I had the cash, I'd go for a Baker OD drive tomorrow.
The other solutions would be to a) buy a Goldwing or balanced V-twin cruiser, Rocket III etc, b) swop your engine for a less powerful, more gentle one. It sounds like you went too far with this one.
Do you live in the middle of Arizona or something? How much 70 to 85 mph flat land touring do you do?
Are you sure you just don't want to show off lugging your big *** engine around? What's the real problem ... noise ... vibes ... what? Pretty much the lowest of cams do not even come on to, say 2,500 or 2,800 and so I'd still say you want to be at the speed you want to be at around 3,000 or so rpm at the least.
Last edited by Dun Roamin; Nov 5, 2014 at 08:16 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20,964
Likes: 7,496
From: Poolville
ones own preference
Every one rides differently as well as preferences to the way they ride. There really is no right or wrong just a different way of seeing things. This is what makes us different as well as our rides. There are many combinations to achieve what he is looking for, to say that one is right and one is wrong is hiddious, I have stated in my presentation of suggestion one way that would help him achieve his goal. Mine worked for me and is not confusing at all.........
This topic started in a very confusing manner with mixed up names and tooth counts, and some equally confusing advice.
It's worth looking at a part catalogue to the terminology correct between front and rear pulleys and compensator and clutch shell sprockets.
Firstly, I'd disagree with grbrown on this one and say that, yes, what you really want is a 6 speed but an 'OD' (overdrive) gearqset.
That would give you exactly what you have now - for zip taking off and lulz - *plus* an extra overdrive for dropping into at high speed cruising.
The standard final gearing of DD (direct drive) is 1:1 ratio. The overdrive is .86:1 or even .80:1 (which is a big drop only recommended for big inch motors). It would also allow you the option of a longer (higher) first or even first and second gears.
Expensive but a better option.
To start chopping your gearing around incurs additional costs, e.g. gaskets, seals, labour, tools etc. You need to add that to your estimate.
So there are two other options;
a) you could do it using new pulleys and perhaps a belt. It depends. If you speak to DBL or Gates they will tell you exactly, e.g. going to a 34T front pulley only adds .25" and you have that much tolerance on your existing set up.
You *could* drop right down even to a 61T rear pulley ... but it will probably need a rear belt swap.
You could even drop right down to a 61T rear pulley *and* up to a 34T front pulley ... they are cheap, may be $75 for the front and Ebay (near nothing) for the rear as they are not popular. They are too high for most bikes. A 34T was a simple solution for bikes with too much torque to stop them spinning tyres.
34T + 61T is the extreme and would drop you down to, say, 2,500 rpm ... but I think it's not a great idea and it sounds to me you are heading towards lugging your engine. Lugging is some folks' habit but not good for an engine, even a strong engine, as it hits the drivechain most. You want to be spinning it a bit and keeping your self in the middle of your torque curve not just at the start of it. It equates to about 1 tooth on the belt difference.
I'd say johnjzjz's recipe is about right but you could go 34T + 65 ot 66T.
b) go for a chain drive conversion which will give you far greater adjustability in gearing. I am surprised no one mentioned this before. Once done, it would be much easier to swop gears/chain until you got it right.
However ... I still don't think it will solve your problem because your problem is something we all struggle with and that is a poorly conceived selection of transmission gears in combination with a compromised final drive (e.g. generally too high).
Therefore, I'd say you'd find the closest to nirvana you will get by going with a OD6 gearset with a long/high first gear and the highest overdrive AND ... wait for it ... may be a 65 or 66T rear pulley. Although you have not said it, I'd guess your first gear is too much right now and pretty pointless, e.g. you could almost start in 2nd.
Well, that's what the optional higher first gear fixes too (they call them " 'R' Ratio", e.g. 2.94 versus 3.24 1st ratio).
A final drive fix might achieve something as a cheap fix, the easiest being a 61T rear pulley (you don't say if you do all your own wrenching and have the tools required) but if I had the cash, I'd go for a Baker OD drive tomorrow.
The other solutions would be to a) buy a Goldwing or balanced V-twin cruiser, Rocket III etc, b) swop your engine for a less powerful, more gentle one. It sounds like you went too far with this one.
Do you live in the middle of Arizona or something? How much 70 to 85 mph flat land touring do you do?
Are you sure you just don't want to show off lugging your big *** engine around? What's the real problem ... noise ... vibes ... what? Pretty much the lowest of cams do not even come on to, say 2,500 or 2,800 and so I'd still say you want to be at the speed you want to be at around 3,000 or so rpm at the least.
It's worth looking at a part catalogue to the terminology correct between front and rear pulleys and compensator and clutch shell sprockets.
Firstly, I'd disagree with grbrown on this one and say that, yes, what you really want is a 6 speed but an 'OD' (overdrive) gearqset.
That would give you exactly what you have now - for zip taking off and lulz - *plus* an extra overdrive for dropping into at high speed cruising.
The standard final gearing of DD (direct drive) is 1:1 ratio. The overdrive is .86:1 or even .80:1 (which is a big drop only recommended for big inch motors). It would also allow you the option of a longer (higher) first or even first and second gears.
Expensive but a better option.
To start chopping your gearing around incurs additional costs, e.g. gaskets, seals, labour, tools etc. You need to add that to your estimate.
So there are two other options;
a) you could do it using new pulleys and perhaps a belt. It depends. If you speak to DBL or Gates they will tell you exactly, e.g. going to a 34T front pulley only adds .25" and you have that much tolerance on your existing set up.
You *could* drop right down even to a 61T rear pulley ... but it will probably need a rear belt swap.
You could even drop right down to a 61T rear pulley *and* up to a 34T front pulley ... they are cheap, may be $75 for the front and Ebay (near nothing) for the rear as they are not popular. They are too high for most bikes. A 34T was a simple solution for bikes with too much torque to stop them spinning tyres.
34T + 61T is the extreme and would drop you down to, say, 2,500 rpm ... but I think it's not a great idea and it sounds to me you are heading towards lugging your engine. Lugging is some folks' habit but not good for an engine, even a strong engine, as it hits the drivechain most. You want to be spinning it a bit and keeping your self in the middle of your torque curve not just at the start of it. It equates to about 1 tooth on the belt difference.
I'd say johnjzjz's recipe is about right but you could go 34T + 65 ot 66T.
b) go for a chain drive conversion which will give you far greater adjustability in gearing. I am surprised no one mentioned this before. Once done, it would be much easier to swop gears/chain until you got it right.
However ... I still don't think it will solve your problem because your problem is something we all struggle with and that is a poorly conceived selection of transmission gears in combination with a compromised final drive (e.g. generally too high).
Therefore, I'd say you'd find the closest to nirvana you will get by going with a OD6 gearset with a long/high first gear and the highest overdrive AND ... wait for it ... may be a 65 or 66T rear pulley. Although you have not said it, I'd guess your first gear is too much right now and pretty pointless, e.g. you could almost start in 2nd.
Well, that's what the optional higher first gear fixes too (they call them " 'R' Ratio", e.g. 2.94 versus 3.24 1st ratio).
A final drive fix might achieve something as a cheap fix, the easiest being a 61T rear pulley (you don't say if you do all your own wrenching and have the tools required) but if I had the cash, I'd go for a Baker OD drive tomorrow.
The other solutions would be to a) buy a Goldwing or balanced V-twin cruiser, Rocket III etc, b) swop your engine for a less powerful, more gentle one. It sounds like you went too far with this one.
Do you live in the middle of Arizona or something? How much 70 to 85 mph flat land touring do you do?
Are you sure you just don't want to show off lugging your big *** engine around? What's the real problem ... noise ... vibes ... what? Pretty much the lowest of cams do not even come on to, say 2,500 or 2,800 and so I'd still say you want to be at the speed you want to be at around 3,000 or so rpm at the least.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 625
Likes: 102
From: New Albany, Ms.
What about this?
Found this site that makes a modification for our 5 speeds:
http://www.twistgear.net/index.html
Makes the 1st 4 gears, a closer ratio & keeps 5th 1:1. I like the concept & not having to buy a 6 speed. I like the idea of having a little more torque, red light to redlight, & be able to cruise 70-80 mph . Called this company & they still sell the kits, but have not found a lot of people that have upgraded. Thought's? Something to think about.
Ride Safe,
Harold
http://www.twistgear.net/index.html
Makes the 1st 4 gears, a closer ratio & keeps 5th 1:1. I like the concept & not having to buy a 6 speed. I like the idea of having a little more torque, red light to redlight, & be able to cruise 70-80 mph . Called this company & they still sell the kits, but have not found a lot of people that have upgraded. Thought's? Something to think about.
Ride Safe,
Harold