Ultima Engines?
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Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: Ultima Engines?
ORIGINAL: Matt D.
Had a 103 sold it. Starting with a new build. And looking for more hp.
Had a 103 sold it. Starting with a new build. And looking for more hp.
You gotta learn to be detailed in your answers. Do you have a bike even or a frame still?If so what kind of frame. Saying you had a 103 means zip to most of us. You had a 103 and sold it? A 103 what? A 103 Twin cam engine hooked up to a unicycle with a seat on top while doing handstands? LOL! More information please in the future.
Assuming you had a "103"(Twin cam i assume), you just sold it because it didnt have enough power? Did you ever try and make a real powerhouse out of that engine? 103" can put down well over 125 hp and 115 foot pounds of torque if set up right.
All those engines you see out for sale. They are just EVO clones. The reason why you see alot of EVO clone engines is because the patent on the engine expired. So now a whole bunch of companies can mkae engines basede on that blueprint. The thing is, its a 25-30 year old design. You dont see Twin cam copies because the the Patent is current on the engine. A Twin cam engine is a far superior base than an EVO designed engine. If you really want serious HP, get a Twin cam case. Especially if you have a Harley frame that has Twin cam engine mounts. Get a Harley or JIMS Twin cam case, get a 4" crank, get a set of stock heads, send the heads out for performance portwork, get a 114" big bore kit and build yourself a true horsepower monster thats super reliable.
All those EVO clones(TP,Ultima,Revtech,S&S blah blah blah)are average at hp made per cubic inch, if you get a 1:1 ratio(hp per cubic inch)your doing good. With a Twin cam engine you can bump that ratio to about 1.25:1 and(1.25hp per cubic inch)higher if you build it right.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: Ultima Engines?
ORIGINAL: FBFletch
This is a great thread. I'm following it with a great deal of interest because a displacement increase is something I'm considering. The 107" or 114" seems right up my alley. I was looking at the $5000 price tag (MegaHDman) which seemed to be all parts. What about the labor to assemble the engine? I can handle the engine swap myself but, I've never torn into a HD engine before and don't feel comfortable doing the engine assembly myself (although I've done a ton of car engines).
I'm starting out with a TC88B engine that's fuel injected. Am I going to be able to get fuel/ignition maps to support sticking with FI or will I need to swap to a carburetor setup? If I can stick with FI, will I need a larger throttle body?
TIA.
This is a great thread. I'm following it with a great deal of interest because a displacement increase is something I'm considering. The 107" or 114" seems right up my alley. I was looking at the $5000 price tag (MegaHDman) which seemed to be all parts. What about the labor to assemble the engine? I can handle the engine swap myself but, I've never torn into a HD engine before and don't feel comfortable doing the engine assembly myself (although I've done a ton of car engines).
I'm starting out with a TC88B engine that's fuel injected. Am I going to be able to get fuel/ignition maps to support sticking with FI or will I need to swap to a carburetor setup? If I can stick with FI, will I need a larger throttle body?
TIA.
If you have a 99'-02' twin cam engine you wont even need the Timken HD case bearing conversion and you can subract that from the total cost. If you have an 03'-06' engine you will. Either way you will have your case bored out by a machine shop(and cam chest clearanced if you get a good performance cam).
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
RE: Ultima Engines?
Sorry I was heading out the door when I was typing earlier. Yes, it was a TC and the bike was a bagger(Screaming Eagle sig). I knew I could get more hp out of it, but to me it was still a heavy bagger. I'm a power to weight ratio guy. Bike was beautiful, quick and F.I. which was all fine and dandy, but just not me. (Expensive way to find out too! lol)
I have an older sporty but the one I'm looking at doing would be a ground up. The frame I'm looking at purchasing is an O School (Outta Vegas) or an SPS stock rake/str. It will be in the next month or so that I finally make up my mind. All my buddys that have done mods to their bikes are minimal. Bolt ons or cams, pipes etc. Nothing radical and just cruisers. So I don't have a ton of people to bounce ideas off of.
I want the HP, and yes, I know what I'm talking about and yes, I've ridden some really fast bikes in my time. I mean ****.. I have a 9 sec street car, so the hp is what I'm used to and after... Minimal extra ****, more in the HP dept. That's why I'm going with an older bobber style frame. I don't mind spending the dough and doing it right, it's just I have no one in my circle that has any tweaking experiance.
Thank you guys for all your help! Shooting for 130-140+hp reliably.
I have an older sporty but the one I'm looking at doing would be a ground up. The frame I'm looking at purchasing is an O School (Outta Vegas) or an SPS stock rake/str. It will be in the next month or so that I finally make up my mind. All my buddys that have done mods to their bikes are minimal. Bolt ons or cams, pipes etc. Nothing radical and just cruisers. So I don't have a ton of people to bounce ideas off of.
I want the HP, and yes, I know what I'm talking about and yes, I've ridden some really fast bikes in my time. I mean ****.. I have a 9 sec street car, so the hp is what I'm used to and after... Minimal extra ****, more in the HP dept. That's why I'm going with an older bobber style frame. I don't mind spending the dough and doing it right, it's just I have no one in my circle that has any tweaking experiance.
Thank you guys for all your help! Shooting for 130-140+hp reliably.
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 5
From: Hickory, NC
RE: Ultima Engines?
Thanks MegaHD. The service manual was the very first thing I bought. It's already been worth it's weight in gold. And, I have enough tools to start my own shop (have done a lot of wrenching on cars over the years). I thought that with the service manual the assembly might be something I could handle. Especially given the quality of the HD manual (at least IMHO). It seems to be much more detailed than any of the automobile service manuals I have.
I do have an '01 TC88B, so that's beautiful with respect to the bearing. I don't know if you missed it but, will I be able to stick with FI (i.e. maps available) or will I have to go carbureted?
Thanks again.
I do have an '01 TC88B, so that's beautiful with respect to the bearing. I don't know if you missed it but, will I be able to stick with FI (i.e. maps available) or will I have to go carbureted?
Thanks again.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 802
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From:
RE: Ultima Engines?
ORIGINAL: FBFletch
Thanks MegaHD. The service manual was the very first thing I bought. It's already been worth it's weight in gold. And, I have enough tools to start my own shop (have done a lot of wrenching on cars over the years). I thought that with the service manual the assembly might be something I could handle. Especially given the quality of the HD manual (at least IMHO). It seems to be much more detailed than any of the automobile service manuals I have.
I do have an '01 TC88B, so that's beautiful with respect to the bearing. I don't know if you missed it but, will I be able to stick with FI (i.e. maps available) or will I have to go carbureted?
Thanks again.
Thanks MegaHD. The service manual was the very first thing I bought. It's already been worth it's weight in gold. And, I have enough tools to start my own shop (have done a lot of wrenching on cars over the years). I thought that with the service manual the assembly might be something I could handle. Especially given the quality of the HD manual (at least IMHO). It seems to be much more detailed than any of the automobile service manuals I have.
I do have an '01 TC88B, so that's beautiful with respect to the bearing. I don't know if you missed it but, will I be able to stick with FI (i.e. maps available) or will I have to go carbureted?
Thanks again.
If you got the tools, then DIY no question asked. Make sure you got feeler guages that go down to .001 and a ring filing tool(manual one can be bought for $40).
I would grab the 114" kit, with the 10.75:1 CP pistons, get a set of Woods 9BG or S&S625g cams for a perfect match and send the heads out to Cycle-Rama for their Stage IV headwork job. All you will need is to have the case bored out. Go to www.emcv2.com and have Eagle do the job, pick up one of the comp sprocket lock plates, get an S&S gear drive conversion(if you dont already) and you will have a serious engine build thats bulletproof and the power will be silky smooth in delivery. I did the budget version of the 114" myself by doing the 98" kit. I didnt have the extra $1000 on hand needed to shore up my bottom end and bore the cases. Next year I will.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
RE: Ultima Engines?
Great thread you started.And there's no substitute for inches and power.So rather than build a motor to cover all areas,should we determine where and how you ride?Will a bigger bore,faster revving,shorter pipes,later-closing intake be for you for racing your friends from bar to bar?Or do live by the mountains,maybe ride with your girl,where a longer stroke,early closing intake, shorter overlap period will give you that low-down cylinder pressure thats needed there?Maybe some manufactures build their cases and cylinders just alittle different,are alittle stronger in some areas that will suit you best depending on your style.If they know your going to barely let it warm up before you wick it,they will adjust clearances to last a little longer.Lots of good ideas posted above,good luck,Bob
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,810
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From: Escondido, Ca.
RE: Ultima Engines?
ORIGINAL: Matt D.
I'd like 140hp and that's what the lagest ci Ultima makes. I'm just qurious as to how close their claims really are to the 140hp. I want nasty power.
I'd like 140hp and that's what the lagest ci Ultima makes. I'm just qurious as to how close their claims really are to the 140hp. I want nasty power.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
RE: Ultima Engines?
Let me chime in a little,
JIMS has been mentioned, and seems to be a good way to go, with the exception that he feels the need to use chain driven cams, which makes absolutely no sense to me personally........
Nevertheless you can get a TC @120 cubes, and then convert over to gear driven cams, I suppose, or have a motor built up for you. If you built it up, you would then have the chance to go with a Timken bearing on the crank, upgraded oiling system, gear driven cams, etc. If this is done, it's the best H/D motor you can get! If you're stuck on an Evo design, then get an Ultima, it'll give you what you want. Whether or not a 127 Evo will be reliable is anyone's guess........I agree with the above that a built TC is stronger and more reliable, and will give you the power you want IF BUILT PROPERLY. As I stated before, check out TP, Sumax, S&S, REvtech's new 110 motor etc.
If it were me, I'd build a TC88A "gear driver", or go with a S&S '96 or Rev-Tech :"4X4" 100 cuber, in satin finish of course! Screw the polished mills, too cheesy looking!!!![:'(]
joe
JIMS has been mentioned, and seems to be a good way to go, with the exception that he feels the need to use chain driven cams, which makes absolutely no sense to me personally........
Nevertheless you can get a TC @120 cubes, and then convert over to gear driven cams, I suppose, or have a motor built up for you. If you built it up, you would then have the chance to go with a Timken bearing on the crank, upgraded oiling system, gear driven cams, etc. If this is done, it's the best H/D motor you can get! If you're stuck on an Evo design, then get an Ultima, it'll give you what you want. Whether or not a 127 Evo will be reliable is anyone's guess........I agree with the above that a built TC is stronger and more reliable, and will give you the power you want IF BUILT PROPERLY. As I stated before, check out TP, Sumax, S&S, REvtech's new 110 motor etc.
If it were me, I'd build a TC88A "gear driver", or go with a S&S '96 or Rev-Tech :"4X4" 100 cuber, in satin finish of course! Screw the polished mills, too cheesy looking!!!![:'(]
joe
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Banned
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 802
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From:
RE: Ultima Engines?
ORIGINAL: traveler
Let me chime in a little,
JIMS has been mentioned, and seems to be a good way to go, with the exception that he feels the need to use chain driven cams, which makes absolutely no sense to me personally........
joe
Let me chime in a little,
JIMS has been mentioned, and seems to be a good way to go, with the exception that he feels the need to use chain driven cams, which makes absolutely no sense to me personally........
joe
And the Jims Case I am referring to goes alot bigger than 120",in fact I dont think its even advertised yet. Im not talking about the 120" engine they build at all. They just brought the case out on the market. It can be purchased with a stock stud pattern, a modified stud pattern, or not drilled at all so you can install your own custom sleeves and heads.