Ethanol gas
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Novice
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24
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From:
Ethanol gas
Whatsthe pros and cons ofEthonal gas? Missouri where I live, now requires all gas to be atleast 10% starting 01/01/08. Is it more corrosive, will milage be better/worse,I've hearddifferent things.What about winter storageetc.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
RE: Ethanol gas
My dealer told me to stay away from Ethanol but no explanation why. I've heard that it tends to dry seals etc. but I've never had a problem with it in my cars.
If it's the only juice available, your options are to use it or walk. Walking sucks.
If it's the only juice available, your options are to use it or walk. Walking sucks.
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 265
Likes: 14
From:
RE: Ethanol gas
It will give you worse mileage but all new bikes and cars are all made to use it. That's all we have in the St. Louis Metro thanks to the epa. It's supposed to burn cleaner but you have to burn more to go the same distance so IMHO it's all crap!!! But like the man said, use it or walk!
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,950
Likes: 2
From: Colorado Springs, CO
RE: Ethanol gas
10% methanol (gasahol) is not a problem. More than 10% and it will cause problems with some of the rubber components of the fuel system.
The greenpeace folks like it because it puts out less emissions. The oil companies like it because it's cheaper to make.
Alcohol burns cooler and cleaner than gas, and has a higher octane. On a hot day, that can really help the engine run better. In the winter, there's less possibility of water in the fuel causing a problem.
Unfortunatly, it also carries fewer BTU's per volume. That means you'll get less power and less mileage, making it more expensive to run.
I hate to say this, but you guys got hosed. The enviro-****'s got together with the oil companies and stuck it to you. Alcohol is a cheap octane booster. So the gas companies can make low octane fuel, add a little cheap alcohol, and sell it to you at a "normal" price. And you now have to buy more of it.
I wonder how long it will be before the rest of us get hosed the same way.
The greenpeace folks like it because it puts out less emissions. The oil companies like it because it's cheaper to make.
Alcohol burns cooler and cleaner than gas, and has a higher octane. On a hot day, that can really help the engine run better. In the winter, there's less possibility of water in the fuel causing a problem.
Unfortunatly, it also carries fewer BTU's per volume. That means you'll get less power and less mileage, making it more expensive to run.
I hate to say this, but you guys got hosed. The enviro-****'s got together with the oil companies and stuck it to you. Alcohol is a cheap octane booster. So the gas companies can make low octane fuel, add a little cheap alcohol, and sell it to you at a "normal" price. And you now have to buy more of it.
I wonder how long it will be before the rest of us get hosed the same way.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
RE: Ethanol gas
Most Gasahol uses Ethanol.
Methanol is the mineral version and is poison. Used in racing for years because in was more available in bulk and I guess they figured Racers know how to use it without killing themselves. IE,,, don't drink it.
Ethanol is now available because the government wanted to get the farmers vote. Mostly, right now, made from grain (corn). It is dry, 200 proof, grain alchol. Somewhere there is a big distillery or two rolling out train cars of the stuff. Some mixes with gasoline and some goes to Vodka bottles.
By the way, it cost several times more to make a gallon of Ethonol than a gallon of Gasoline. And uses more much more Oil (energy) that it replaces. By the time you figure in ALL costs. You start by plowing the field. Almost everything involved takes energy from Oil,including fertilizer, (mostly from Natural Gas).
The Gov and Greenies would have you believe its a free lunch. Tax dollors at work. NOT,,,,,But I invest in Archer Danials (grain storage) because thats where some goes. Also TransOcean because they drill for Oil. Pays for my Gas.
Oh Well.
I think the biggest problem for Motorcycles is that Motorcycles sit around for extended times sometimes. Especially in the winter. Alcohol will absorb water from the air. Thats why it is used to dry out a fuel system. Mixes with the water and flows thru the system as you use it right then. But if it just sits there, the water will drop out to the bottom of the tank and cause problems. Keep the takn full to keep air changes to a minumim while the motorcycle sits.
More that you ever wanted to knowprobably.
Methanol is the mineral version and is poison. Used in racing for years because in was more available in bulk and I guess they figured Racers know how to use it without killing themselves. IE,,, don't drink it.
Ethanol is now available because the government wanted to get the farmers vote. Mostly, right now, made from grain (corn). It is dry, 200 proof, grain alchol. Somewhere there is a big distillery or two rolling out train cars of the stuff. Some mixes with gasoline and some goes to Vodka bottles.
By the way, it cost several times more to make a gallon of Ethonol than a gallon of Gasoline. And uses more much more Oil (energy) that it replaces. By the time you figure in ALL costs. You start by plowing the field. Almost everything involved takes energy from Oil,including fertilizer, (mostly from Natural Gas).
The Gov and Greenies would have you believe its a free lunch. Tax dollors at work. NOT,,,,,But I invest in Archer Danials (grain storage) because thats where some goes. Also TransOcean because they drill for Oil. Pays for my Gas.
Oh Well.
I think the biggest problem for Motorcycles is that Motorcycles sit around for extended times sometimes. Especially in the winter. Alcohol will absorb water from the air. Thats why it is used to dry out a fuel system. Mixes with the water and flows thru the system as you use it right then. But if it just sits there, the water will drop out to the bottom of the tank and cause problems. Keep the takn full to keep air changes to a minumim while the motorcycle sits.
More that you ever wanted to knowprobably.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 711
Likes: 0
From: Bothell, WA
RE: Ethanol gas
Ethanol has no octane! Adding ethanol to gasoline lowers the octane number of the gas causing the gas to ignite at a lower temperature and burn hotter. HD approves the use of 10% ethanol fuels. Anything greater than 10% will increase the operating temperature of your engine and increase the probability of pre-ignition (pinging). Many modern automobile manufactures are making flex fuel vehicles that can run on higher percentages of ethanol. These vehicles have adaptive fuel management systems that can adjust to the differences in fuel octane (ignition timing and AF ratio). One downside of ethanol fuel is once the fuel management system adjust the timing and air/fuel ratio to burn ethanol, both performance and gas mileage drop.
Hopefully, HD will someday realize that gasoline may not be around forever and design a fuel management system that can adapt to running on ethanol. I would like to be able to "brew my own fuel" and continue to ride when gasoline is no more!
Hopefully, HD will someday realize that gasoline may not be around forever and design a fuel management system that can adapt to running on ethanol. I would like to be able to "brew my own fuel" and continue to ride when gasoline is no more!
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: Ethanol gas
Old Gunny is correct on all accounts. The only thing I can add is that ethanol is not corrosive, but the water dump tendancy can cause problems as water is good at causing corrosion, which could account for why zinc metals and ethanoldon't get along well. Octain rating is higher with ethanol, so you need to burn more to get the same btu. Over 10% fuel enrichment is need to prevent a lean condition. At 10% problems generally are non existant.
Ron
Ron
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Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 620
Likes: 2
From: Oakdale, CT
RE: Ethanol gas
Just a heads up but as of 1/1/08 all gas nationwide must use 10% ethanol as a federal mandate...
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,558
Likes: 280
From: Russellville, Arkansas
RE: Ethanol gas
Damn the EPA.....I would fire them all!!!![:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]
They started coming alive in the mid-70's and have gained much power in the past couple of decades. They use to do good stuff and lots of stuff really need paying attention to. However in today standards.....I believe they are overstepping their boundries.
Lot's of EPA folks drive SUV's.....which get extremely poor gas mileage. Apparently they don't get care that much. I still see hippies from time to time, they tend to want a clean simple environment with windills and solar capabilities.....yet they still drive 1960's station wagons.
What it boils down to.....there are ALOT of dumbasses in the world!!!
They started coming alive in the mid-70's and have gained much power in the past couple of decades. They use to do good stuff and lots of stuff really need paying attention to. However in today standards.....I believe they are overstepping their boundries.
Lot's of EPA folks drive SUV's.....which get extremely poor gas mileage. Apparently they don't get care that much. I still see hippies from time to time, they tend to want a clean simple environment with windills and solar capabilities.....yet they still drive 1960's station wagons.
What it boils down to.....there are ALOT of dumbasses in the world!!!
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 10,471
Likes: 1
From: Heart of Missouri
RE: Ethanol gas
Glad to see this post being from Missouri. From what I read and researched, will just be paying more in the long run. And yeah all you other states might as well get ready!