EFI touring models remap question
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 872
Likes: 1
From: Uxbridge, Ma
The dealer will sell you a SERT for about 400+ bucks.
TTS Mastertune can be got for 425 bucks.
If you get a SERT you will exhaust the usefullness in about 1 year. Plus the dealer will charge you, unless you learn how to to do yourself, about 75-100 per session unless it is a dyno session @ 150 hour.
The TTS Mastertune does it all. You buy it and you use it all you want. You just have to learn how it works. Not that hard.
TTS Mastertune can be got for 425 bucks.
If you get a SERT you will exhaust the usefullness in about 1 year. Plus the dealer will charge you, unless you learn how to to do yourself, about 75-100 per session unless it is a dyno session @ 150 hour.
The TTS Mastertune does it all. You buy it and you use it all you want. You just have to learn how it works. Not that hard.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 872
Likes: 1
From: Uxbridge, Ma
I called a local dealer yesterday and told him my current set up and asked if my stock computer could be remapped. He said for 2006 there is no "map" for that year. Has anyone heard of this or is guy pulling my chain?
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
Likes: 46
From: Roswell, GA
Do a search for "Steve Cole" and ask him via PM: (1) if the current map in your ECM can be read by HD's dealership hardware/software? And, (2) what would be the closes canned map the dealership would have for your a/c and muffler. Steve's company developed the SERT tuning software for HD and now offers the TTS tuning equipment/software.
I'm about 99% sure that the answer to #1 above will be "NO." There is no way for the HD store to read the map/calibration file currently in your ECM. With the SE a/c and Samson mufflers, your bike should have had the ECM reclaibrated when those were installed. If it was, changing to different mufflers probably won't require a further recalibration.
As for the dealership saying they don't have a map for your current configuration, that's true in the sense that HD offers a limited number of dealer downloadable maps and none were for bikes with aftermarket components. There is a dealer installable map for the Stage I change which is basically the SE a/c, and it's what I referred to in the previous paragraph.
A relatively inexpensive alternative is to keep track of your fuel mileage and cylinder head temps. If your fuel mileage is 40+ and your cylinder head temps are 250-260* or so (measured using an infrared thermometer at the base of the sparkplug), that's a very good indication that the bike is not running excessively rich (because your mileage is good) or too lean (because if it was seriously lean the cylinder head temps would be much higher).
The thermometer can be purchased for under $20. And you simply use it immediately after shutting off the bike and resting the bike on the kickstand.
Good luck with your research.
I'm about 99% sure that the answer to #1 above will be "NO." There is no way for the HD store to read the map/calibration file currently in your ECM. With the SE a/c and Samson mufflers, your bike should have had the ECM reclaibrated when those were installed. If it was, changing to different mufflers probably won't require a further recalibration.
As for the dealership saying they don't have a map for your current configuration, that's true in the sense that HD offers a limited number of dealer downloadable maps and none were for bikes with aftermarket components. There is a dealer installable map for the Stage I change which is basically the SE a/c, and it's what I referred to in the previous paragraph.
A relatively inexpensive alternative is to keep track of your fuel mileage and cylinder head temps. If your fuel mileage is 40+ and your cylinder head temps are 250-260* or so (measured using an infrared thermometer at the base of the sparkplug), that's a very good indication that the bike is not running excessively rich (because your mileage is good) or too lean (because if it was seriously lean the cylinder head temps would be much higher).
The thermometer can be purchased for under $20. And you simply use it immediately after shutting off the bike and resting the bike on the kickstand.
Good luck with your research.
Does your bike have a stage I download in it now? If so, you're fine, don"t change a thing. Harley makes "canned MAPS" for stage I kits, they are a "safe", 50 state legal MAP for all stage I applications. If you were running a pipe and A/C, had the download and then changed the pipes, the download will still be fine for you.
You guys telling this guy to just throw more money at his bike is wrong, he obviosly doesn't want to get into self tuning, some people actually just want to ride their bikes, some people don't really care about getting the maximum performance out of their bikes. This guy soundslike 1 of them. I can appreciate giving props to the sponsors, but it's in every post anymore. The guy said he thought the slip ons were too expensive, so I doubt he wants to throw another 400 + on a tuner then have to learn how to tune it.
You guys telling this guy to just throw more money at his bike is wrong, he obviosly doesn't want to get into self tuning, some people actually just want to ride their bikes, some people don't really care about getting the maximum performance out of their bikes. This guy soundslike 1 of them. I can appreciate giving props to the sponsors, but it's in every post anymore. The guy said he thought the slip ons were too expensive, so I doubt he wants to throw another 400 + on a tuner then have to learn how to tune it.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 13
From: Asscrackistan
Does your bike have a stage I download in it now? If so, you're fine, don"t change a thing. Harley makes "canned MAPS" for stage I kits, they are a "safe", 50 state legal MAP for all stage I applications. If you were running a pipe and A/C, had the download and then changed the pipes, the download will still be fine for you.
You guys telling this guy to just throw more money at his bike is wrong, he obviosly doesn't want to get into self tuning, some people actually just want to ride their bikes, some people don't really care about getting the maximum performance out of their bikes. This guy soundslike 1 of them. I can appreciate giving props to the sponsors, but it's in every post anymore. The guy said he thought the slip ons were too expensive, so I doubt he wants to throw another 400 + on a tuner then have to learn how to tune it.
You guys telling this guy to just throw more money at his bike is wrong, he obviosly doesn't want to get into self tuning, some people actually just want to ride their bikes, some people don't really care about getting the maximum performance out of their bikes. This guy soundslike 1 of them. I can appreciate giving props to the sponsors, but it's in every post anymore. The guy said he thought the slip ons were too expensive, so I doubt he wants to throw another 400 + on a tuner then have to learn how to tune it.
Print in Bold is not completely accurate! The Stage 1 download for HD is in fact a "canned" map that is in fact 50 state EPA compliant, but only with SE pipes and SE Stage 1 AC. This map is still lean! Once you change those pipes again, you lean it out further. The SERT or SEST is still a 50 state compliant map that will bring you back to OEM settings, which is still lean! The TTS, (the real way to go) will give infinite adjustment and to truly dial it in correctly, is to Dyno! With the TTS, you store the original HD Map in the controller, which can then be swapped out and the Dyno map stored. The TTS is in fact made by Steve Cole, who supplies HD with the SEST/SERT. I would consider other sources than a HD Tech to tune my bike, as they want it in and out ASAP. It's all about the $$! The bike will /should be on the Dyno for at least 4 hrs.! A PCIII would be the minimum I would go, but if you do it, do it right, the first time. There is an old saying, You got to pay to play. Remember, the stock map is lean, the rear cylinder gets hotter in traffic, a tuner will help solve these issues and make for a much better running bike. The added benefit to a tuner is it will also enhance the overall performance.
As far as tuing goes, like I said, I do not like the download, I prefer the SERT or SEST over anything, the PCIII and PCV are coming a long way, but they have a bit more to go IMO.
edited: One other thing, when you say that a tune should take at least 4 hours, I wouldn't totally agree with this either. I have well over 1000 home made MAPS on my computer, when someone brings in a build and a have a MAP very similar to their build, the tune can almost be cut in half. Usually about 3 hours give or take.
Last edited by harleytuner; Apr 14, 2009 at 01:15 PM.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 13
From: Asscrackistan
If you only switch pipes to SE and no AC, you are fine. If you switch pipes other than SE and NOT the AC, it in fact changes the tune. It may be slight, but it does change it and make it a little more lean. You state--
"The HD download is for S.E. equipment, that's true. It is based off od the heavy brether and scremain eagle pipes. However, further changing the pipes will not change the tune a whole lot. It won't make it that much richer if richer at all. Remember, you are not changing the amount of air entering the engine with differn't pipes, just the amount exiting."
Again, when you change from just SE pipes to brand X, the tune is effected, even without the AC. It will lean out a little more and you will likely have decel pop or gargling, guaranteed! You are correct when you say the add on won't richin the system up much, if at all, because it will not, it does just the opposite and leans it out more. Changing to other than SE pipes and no AC WITH a Stage 1 Download isn't enough to bring the system back up, as a matter of fact, the S1 DL is a total waste of $$ if you do that. Speaking from first hand knowledge and personal experience, I would steer anyone clear from a stage 1 DL and put that $$ toward a better system that will net you more in the end.
"The HD download is for S.E. equipment, that's true. It is based off od the heavy brether and scremain eagle pipes. However, further changing the pipes will not change the tune a whole lot. It won't make it that much richer if richer at all. Remember, you are not changing the amount of air entering the engine with differn't pipes, just the amount exiting."
Again, when you change from just SE pipes to brand X, the tune is effected, even without the AC. It will lean out a little more and you will likely have decel pop or gargling, guaranteed! You are correct when you say the add on won't richin the system up much, if at all, because it will not, it does just the opposite and leans it out more. Changing to other than SE pipes and no AC WITH a Stage 1 Download isn't enough to bring the system back up, as a matter of fact, the S1 DL is a total waste of $$ if you do that. Speaking from first hand knowledge and personal experience, I would steer anyone clear from a stage 1 DL and put that $$ toward a better system that will net you more in the end.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 447
Likes: 1
From: St. Louis
I don't know if they wre just rying to sell extras, but at my HD Dealer whenI wanted the V&H SS pipes, they said I must add the SE stage 1 intake and re-tune. If I wanted SE slip ons I would not have to do anything else but the slip ons. I got the PC III pre-mapped for my pipes and intake and all is well.