Excessive valve train noise
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Dover DE
Excessive valve train noise
I have a 2001 Ultra Classic with fuel injection. Mod wise it has a 95" kit with Andrews 26r cams and a PCIII. THe bike currently has 68k on it, I bought it two years ago with 53k on it. Immediately I changed the timming tensioners (they were shot) and added the Andrews cams and adjustable pushrods (set at 2 1/2 turns). Ever since then the bike has had a clatter like a lifter tap that comes and goes. TO my knowledge the bike was not doing it before the cams, but I can't be sure because it had a loud exhaust when I test drove it. I'm wondering if it's the effect of the higher lift cam on the stock valve springs or mabe worn rocker shafts. I'm planning on tearing down the top end to replace the valve springs, lifters and inspect everything else. Just courious if anyone has any ideas. Over two years the noise has not gotten any worst or better.
Re'
Re'
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
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Not sure about the pushrod turns.
Some have various threads per inch. First need to find that.
TC lifters are based on Chevy Small Block lifters. Maybe even be the same.
This lifter has a free movement of 0.200 inches. The idea is to get into the middle of this or about 0.100 inches down from just finger tight at TDC (valves closed on that cylender), cold.
Now S&S and some others use 32 threads per. in. One inch divided by 32 equals 0.03125. per one full turn. 3 turns with this make push rod gives about 0.093. Couple more flate give 0.100. Others would be different depending on the threads per inch.
Bob Woods suggests, for stock lifters, targeting 0.150 down from resistance. With S&S this would come out to 4.5 turns down. About 0.050 inches from bottom, plenty of room. Aint' gonna get shorter as it gets hotter.
I did that before installing limiters and the valve train got much quiter.
Try to target a little more than just the middle. This gives the pushrod more room to grow when things all get hot. If the cylender outgrows the push rod or gets close this opens up a gap and more noise.
Something to think about especially if things are quiet when the engine is still cold and gets noiser as it warms up.
Some have various threads per inch. First need to find that.
TC lifters are based on Chevy Small Block lifters. Maybe even be the same.
This lifter has a free movement of 0.200 inches. The idea is to get into the middle of this or about 0.100 inches down from just finger tight at TDC (valves closed on that cylender), cold.
Now S&S and some others use 32 threads per. in. One inch divided by 32 equals 0.03125. per one full turn. 3 turns with this make push rod gives about 0.093. Couple more flate give 0.100. Others would be different depending on the threads per inch.
Bob Woods suggests, for stock lifters, targeting 0.150 down from resistance. With S&S this would come out to 4.5 turns down. About 0.050 inches from bottom, plenty of room. Aint' gonna get shorter as it gets hotter.
I did that before installing limiters and the valve train got much quiter.
Try to target a little more than just the middle. This gives the pushrod more room to grow when things all get hot. If the cylender outgrows the push rod or gets close this opens up a gap and more noise.
Something to think about especially if things are quiet when the engine is still cold and gets noiser as it warms up.
Last edited by Old Gunny; May 12, 2009 at 03:21 PM.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Dover DE
Same amount of noise all the time regaurdless of engine temp. Only time it gets worse is if revs go near 5k and then it gets real bad and constant almost like valve float.
Not sure which one is making the noise, it sound like it's comming from the rockerbox area (I think).
Re'
Not sure which one is making the noise, it sound like it's comming from the rockerbox area (I think).
Re'
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Dover DE
Thanx for the good info. It looks like I'm gonna install the low mile lifters I picked up and play with the lifter preload a little.
Re'
Last edited by RE AND CHERYL; May 13, 2009 at 02:42 AM.
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Along with all the good advice already, an oil pressure shim or spring, and a good quality, 20W50, that maintains it's "50" viscosity at full operating temps. (Syn III ain't it.)
3 1/2-4 turns with S&S pushrods. Armed with this info, you should be able to get it super quiet.
Scott
3 1/2-4 turns with S&S pushrods. Armed with this info, you should be able to get it super quiet.
Scott
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Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Dover DE
I decided to add one turn to all the pushrods and see what happens. Well it seems to have reduced the sound by about 2/3 to 3/4 and I have to actually listen for it now. At least I know I'm on the right track. To be safe I'm gonna order new valve springs as they have over 65k on them and it probably wouldn't hurt. I also need a set of the pustrod tubes made fro adjustable pushrods as my stock ones were a pain in the *** to get around.
Anyone recomend a set of vavle springs for a Andrews 26h cam
I use Harley Davidsons overpriced oil.
Re'
Anyone recomend a set of vavle springs for a Andrews 26h cam
Along with all the good advice already, an oil pressure shim or spring, and a good quality, 20W50, that maintains it's "50" viscosity at full operating temps. (Syn III ain't it.)
3 1/2-4 turns with S&S pushrods. Armed with this info, you should be able to get it super quiet.
Scott
3 1/2-4 turns with S&S pushrods. Armed with this info, you should be able to get it super quiet.
Scott
Re'
Last edited by RE AND CHERYL; May 13, 2009 at 11:52 AM.
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Tourer
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From: Dover DE
After riding to work it seems that only about 1/2 the noise is gone. It will be nearly quiet for a minute or so and then for no reason clatter for 3-4 seconds, sometimes loudly and sometimes not so loud. Basically the same thing it's been doing for two years, but not as much. Seems I need to install the new lifters and figure out how many turns I need to to be at to get around .150 preload. I also need to find out how much preload I have in them right now.
Re'
Re'
Last edited by RE AND CHERYL; May 13, 2009 at 05:53 PM.