Knocking from engine area
Thread Starter
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Novice
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: VA
sorry i have not been back, working a lot nights and weekends. just put primary cover back on tonight. cut .030 off of compensator bolt,took a close look at all parts in primary and comp nut has been loose at sometime. the rotor splines are a little rough and can see where burrs were gound off . so i made a plate (large washer) same thickness as rotor and installed in place of rotor. started with primary cover off and still have noise so rotor now back in and buttoned up. i did not wash out bearings when cylinders were off, wish i had. need to add another sympton. dont know if it is related. traded bikes with a friend on ride before this last teardown and realized i have a pretty bad vibration (thought it was normal harley vibration)been there sinse i bought bike (3 years). blurred vishion, mirrors hard to see out of. friend that rode my bike said he was more concerned about vibration, could not stand to ride it very long. like i said crank runnout .002-.003 both ends. ck front motor mount, its good, vibration is in motor, pull in clutch at speed and vibration goes away. can i have a crank problem and still have good runnot? always had vibration. noise just started recently.this thing has kicked my but so bad i really dont know now if noise is from top or bottom. being an auto it tech sounds like a deep knock, but may be from top. thanks for all the help. going to ride this week (60-65 highs in va this week) to try to get a better idea of location of noise and if i have helped any.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
I have increased or decreased vibration on my bike by just tuning.
Timing mostly if too far one way or another.
I have increased or decreased vibration with lifter adjustment. That mostly with the solid lifter Shovles.
Seem like something would have to have shown up here by now if this was the area causing most of the trouble.
I know this doesn't help really.
Only other thing I can think now is, can you remember what the pinion bushings looked like when you had the cam covers off? Much wear here at the end of the crank?
I figure you have addressed the engine mounts and they are tight? Everything tight?
Timing mostly if too far one way or another.
I have increased or decreased vibration with lifter adjustment. That mostly with the solid lifter Shovles.
Seem like something would have to have shown up here by now if this was the area causing most of the trouble.
I know this doesn't help really.
Only other thing I can think now is, can you remember what the pinion bushings looked like when you had the cam covers off? Much wear here at the end of the crank?
I figure you have addressed the engine mounts and they are tight? Everything tight?
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
There is one thing you could do to pinpoint better.
I use a long screwdriver with the handle cupped over a ear as a listening rod. You can put the tip to various places to get closes to the sound.
Not perfect cause though I used to have terrible valvetrain noise and the sound presented itself on the top end but the problem was the lifters, which sounded quiet.
Crank noise should sound out though.
I use a long screwdriver with the handle cupped over a ear as a listening rod. You can put the tip to various places to get closes to the sound.
Not perfect cause though I used to have terrible valvetrain noise and the sound presented itself on the top end but the problem was the lifters, which sounded quiet.
Crank noise should sound out though.
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 2
From: Ontario,Canada
this is my guess ,I am in the midst of doing my mainshaft bearing right now ,mine would knock at idle only,when you have the clutch off move the main shaft up and down by hand you will most likely hear it knock if there is lots of slop like mine.
Thread Starter
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Novice
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 18
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From: VA
everything in cam case is new, end of crank looked good. i used automotive type stethoscope many times and noise seems to come from everywhere, cannot pin point it. last time i had primary apart i checked every thing very closley, no play in trans mainshaft that i could feel. if it is not the crank then i am missing something (very possible).motor mounts tight. bike is back together, rode about 10 miles today, nothing has changed. i am now looking for vibration problem. i think i need a new set of eyes, ears on this problem. any body know a good shop? i would really like to fix this myself but i am about to give up. i read on another thread that if primary chain was not put back on the way it came off it would cause a vibration, is this a possibility. comp bolt has been loose at some point before i owned bike, can tell by damage to rotor splines. i keep going back to primary area, noise seems louder on left side, thinking about replacing rotor, chain, giude. i would really love to come up with a way to start engine without rotor, compensator, chain so i could tell if noise is from engine, trans, or primary.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
Not so much the end of the crank but the pinion bushing. A wollering crank will eat that bushing up. oil pressure will drop also.
when the primary is open can you tell if the primary chain has a tight spot? All chains have some differences but a chain could be wore out --or--
the crank could be wollering.
These will cause vibration.
Using a stethoscope around the cam area it should be a swishing sound, nice quiet sound.
If top end there will be a lot of tapping, rattling.
Having said that mine sounded like that and I really did the top end special good and still that kind of noise on top
Was the lifters, which sounded so good. Go figure.
But my engine has woods springs and woods 400 cam so no surprise. Surprised and very pleased the woods Lifters stopped the noise.
when the primary is open can you tell if the primary chain has a tight spot? All chains have some differences but a chain could be wore out --or--
the crank could be wollering.
These will cause vibration.
Using a stethoscope around the cam area it should be a swishing sound, nice quiet sound.
If top end there will be a lot of tapping, rattling.
Having said that mine sounded like that and I really did the top end special good and still that kind of noise on top
Was the lifters, which sounded so good. Go figure.
But my engine has woods springs and woods 400 cam so no surprise. Surprised and very pleased the woods Lifters stopped the noise.
Last edited by Old Gunny; Nov 10, 2010 at 01:16 PM.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
I repeat, transmission mainshaft bearing is going or gone; fix that before you try to chase down the vibration issue.
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
I should have been more clear. Actually there are three thngs to check. First the outer mainshaft race that the clutch pack rides on, the inner mainshaft race that the mainshaft bearing rides on and the mainshaft bearing itself. Remove the inner primary and take the tension off the chain to check the play between the clutch and the outer mainshaft race. If out of service limits; replace the inner race. Checking further will require removing the inner primary to expose the transmission drive pulley. Take the tension off the drive belt and check the play mainshaft play. If out of service, you will have to pull the trap door main and countershaft assembly to replace the mainshaft bearing and race.
Get the service manual if you don't have one and you will see what I am referring to. This coud be the source of the noise and the vibration; the vibration being a symptom of the progressive deterioration of the mainshaft output bearings and races. Having said that, obviously the vibration could be many other things; failed engine mount(s), worn tires, worn primary chain, loose engine/transmission fasteners, upper engine bracket loose, or an internal engine problem. My brothers Dyna developed a vibration that nearly drove us both to insanity trying to find. I was looking underneath the bike for probably the 10th time when I notices a small rock wedged between the engine case and the frame. The rock was small but wedged tightly; I popped it out with a tap and vibration gone! The rock basically changed a rubber mounted engine to a solid mounted engine; you just have to be dogged in your pursuit of the problem until you sort it out.
Remember, I am just a shade tree hack and not a professional but based on your previous posts and the work you have done to eliminate other sources; this is where I come down.
Get the service manual if you don't have one and you will see what I am referring to. This coud be the source of the noise and the vibration; the vibration being a symptom of the progressive deterioration of the mainshaft output bearings and races. Having said that, obviously the vibration could be many other things; failed engine mount(s), worn tires, worn primary chain, loose engine/transmission fasteners, upper engine bracket loose, or an internal engine problem. My brothers Dyna developed a vibration that nearly drove us both to insanity trying to find. I was looking underneath the bike for probably the 10th time when I notices a small rock wedged between the engine case and the frame. The rock was small but wedged tightly; I popped it out with a tap and vibration gone! The rock basically changed a rubber mounted engine to a solid mounted engine; you just have to be dogged in your pursuit of the problem until you sort it out.
Remember, I am just a shade tree hack and not a professional but based on your previous posts and the work you have done to eliminate other sources; this is where I come down.