103 upgrade disappointing
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 79
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From: orlando, fl
What they are all barking about is compression. The kind of compression one reads with a compression gauge. Go to Sears and buy the BEST compression gauge they have. Go home. put the bike on the jack. remove the spark plugs. Pop in the compression gauge. hold the throttle wide open and crank like ten times. You SHOULD get a reading off of both cylinders in the 180's. (maybe 170s).
If the reading between front and back cylinders is way different.... Scott is saying that difference shows the cams are off a tooth. The number you get is the CCP. Cold Cranking Pressure, and is the ONLY number used for compression...., because it takes into consideration on how the cam effects the bleed off of compression.
So................ get that compression tester..... run the test.... and post up your front and rear numbers.
You ARE correct! Your parts combo should have done better than under 100tq you presently have. Something is NOT right here. Let us try to help you find the problem.
PS... two whole rides to dial in a TTS using v-tune? It takes ME like 6 hrs to get a tune in close, with 20-30 'rides' to gather info.
If the reading between front and back cylinders is way different.... Scott is saying that difference shows the cams are off a tooth. The number you get is the CCP. Cold Cranking Pressure, and is the ONLY number used for compression...., because it takes into consideration on how the cam effects the bleed off of compression.
So................ get that compression tester..... run the test.... and post up your front and rear numbers.
You ARE correct! Your parts combo should have done better than under 100tq you presently have. Something is NOT right here. Let us try to help you find the problem.
PS... two whole rides to dial in a TTS using v-tune? It takes ME like 6 hrs to get a tune in close, with 20-30 'rides' to gather info.
I'm assuming this is a dry compression test, right?
Do I remove both spark plugs before testing each cylinder?
Why does the bike need to be on the lift, can't I do this on the side stand?
Do I need to do anything to prevent the ignition from sending a current to the plug wire?
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Joined: Jun 2009
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From: orlando, fl
OK, just ran the compression test. Both cylinders read 169 psi. So it sounds like the cams aren't off a tooth. Open to suggestions. I have an appointment with Doc for a dyno tune next Wed. But it's hard to believe the whole problem is in the map. I started with the TTS PS176-002 calibration (25 deg injectors/1690 cc/Big Bore Cyl & flat top pistons/.550 Lift 211/235 Duration Camshaft). Then I auto-tuned it with TTS. I stopped after 2 rides because all the cells were white or light pink.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: san antonio
OK, just ran the compression test. Both cylinders read 169 psi. So it sounds like the cams aren't off a tooth. Open to suggestions. I have an appointment with Doc for a dyno tune next Wed. But it's hard to believe the whole problem is in the map. I started with the TTS PS176-002 calibration (25 deg injectors/1690 cc/Big Bore Cyl & flat top pistons/.550 Lift 211/235 Duration Camshaft). Then I auto-tuned it with TTS. I stopped after 2 rides because all the cells were white or light pink.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 79
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From: orlando, fl
I sent my dyno chart to Doc yesterday. Doc said he didn't believe there was any sumping based on the chart. My mechanic will still check the pinion gear tomorrow but believes the problem is a combination of the rings not being seated yet plus a poor ecm map. I'm attaching the dyno chart showing the 103 and tw-555 Vs the 96 with the Andrews 26H. While the 103 shows a small improvement it isn't close to what I was expecting. Wish I could find a smoking gun.
[IMG]file:///C:/images/BIKE/103-dyno1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]file:///C:/images/BIKE/103-dyno1.jpg[/IMG]
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Agree,..............and if it is sumping, then the culprit usually is the pump is not sealed correctly.
Scott
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: san antonio
I sent my dyno chart to Doc yesterday. Doc said he didn't believe there was any sumping based on the chart. My mechanic will still check the pinion gear tomorrow but believes the problem is a combination of the rings not being seated yet plus a poor ecm map. I'm attaching the dyno chart showing the 103 and tw-555 Vs the 96 with the Andrews 26H. While the 103 shows a small improvement it isn't close to what I was expecting. Wish I could find a smoking gun. [IMG]file:///C:/images/BIKE/103-dyno1.jpg[/IMG]
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Seattle, WA
The quickest and easiest way to check for sumping is to pull the drain plug on the bottom of the crank case ... you shouldn't get more than a few tablespoons ... if you have more than a cup ... there's a good chance you are experiencing sumping and the O-ring coming from the crankcase to the scavenging side of the oil pump is not sealing ....
The plug has a slight taper and uses pipe threads ... put a little dope on it when replacing and take it easy ... wouldn't want to f*** it up ....
Don't ask me how I know .... [sumping ... not the plug]
R/
'Chop
The plug has a slight taper and uses pipe threads ... put a little dope on it when replacing and take it easy ... wouldn't want to f*** it up ....
Don't ask me how I know .... [sumping ... not the plug]
R/
'Chop
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Joined: May 2008
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From: Ashland Ohio
Softails will have more oil than an A motor will when checking for sumping. I don't know what the differences in oil amounts are, but maybe someone can chime in here.
Doc will get you where you need to be.
Doc will get you where you need to be.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: san antonio
If you check after getting the engine up to operating temp, there shouldn't be any more oil in a "B" crank case than in an "A" crankcase. However, if you wait to check, gravity will kick in and oil from the "B" oil tank can find its way into the crank case. That is why when checking for sumping, the check should be made hot.