sumping
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 5
From: Fort Worth TX
Do not over look a piston jet oiler that is stuck open. They will cause sumping as well.
Pinion run out can be checked but the question is how accurate is that ?? As I have a 09 engine here that has .0065 on the pinion. Now we removed comp and rotor, installed a tool to duplicate comp tq,.. and you can then grab the left side of the crank and get over .025 of run out on the other side. The extra play is coming from the lack of proper fit of crank race to ID of the roller bearings.
This bike did not sump but would have the lifters bleeding down when hot at a stop light. Customer installed new oil pump cam plate, and woods lifters. Still had the same issue, it had been to two dealers and one other indy shop.
There was nothing wrong with the oiling system or the lifters. The crank is walking around in the lower end. Luke from fueling has seen this as well , I recall him stating that he has seen even larger run out than we saw.
Just something to be aware of.
Pinion run out can be checked but the question is how accurate is that ?? As I have a 09 engine here that has .0065 on the pinion. Now we removed comp and rotor, installed a tool to duplicate comp tq,.. and you can then grab the left side of the crank and get over .025 of run out on the other side. The extra play is coming from the lack of proper fit of crank race to ID of the roller bearings.
This bike did not sump but would have the lifters bleeding down when hot at a stop light. Customer installed new oil pump cam plate, and woods lifters. Still had the same issue, it had been to two dealers and one other indy shop.
There was nothing wrong with the oiling system or the lifters. The crank is walking around in the lower end. Luke from fueling has seen this as well , I recall him stating that he has seen even larger run out than we saw.
Just something to be aware of.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: so fl
The plug is installed on the plate. Talked to corporate and they confirmed several calls in about the issue. Does anyone know of any way to get contact for the reps? Corporate refused to give it to me
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 574
Likes: 3
From: AB Canada
Do not over look a piston jet oiler that is stuck open. They will cause sumping as well.
Pinion run out can be checked but the question is how accurate is that ?? As I have a 09 engine here that has .0065 on the pinion. Now we removed comp and rotor, installed a tool to duplicate comp tq,.. and you can then grab the left side of the crank and get over .025 of run out on the other side. The extra play is coming from the lack of proper fit of crank race to ID of the roller bearings.
This bike did not sump but would have the lifters bleeding down when hot at a stop light. Customer installed new oil pump cam plate, and woods lifters. Still had the same issue, it had been to two dealers and one other indy shop.
There was nothing wrong with the oiling system or the lifters. The crank is walking around in the lower end. Luke from fueling has seen this as well , I recall him stating that he has seen even larger run out than we saw.
Just something to be aware of.
Pinion run out can be checked but the question is how accurate is that ?? As I have a 09 engine here that has .0065 on the pinion. Now we removed comp and rotor, installed a tool to duplicate comp tq,.. and you can then grab the left side of the crank and get over .025 of run out on the other side. The extra play is coming from the lack of proper fit of crank race to ID of the roller bearings.
This bike did not sump but would have the lifters bleeding down when hot at a stop light. Customer installed new oil pump cam plate, and woods lifters. Still had the same issue, it had been to two dealers and one other indy shop.
There was nothing wrong with the oiling system or the lifters. The crank is walking around in the lower end. Luke from fueling has seen this as well , I recall him stating that he has seen even larger run out than we saw.
Just something to be aware of.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,532
Likes: 132
From: SoCal
I was wondering about the cooling jets as well, both being stuck open from some foreign material, but they are open pretty much all the time above idle speed, would the oil volume at idle cause excessive sumping? Would the jets being open all the time 'cool' the pistons too much delaying warm up ( symptom from OP ).
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: so fl
Ok..... Just left the dealer. Tech never checked the run-out and said he didn't think to because there was no wear in the oil pump or the gears that would be caused by the run-out. Said he checked the piston oil jets and they were fine. Service manager was not there so I left the bike there. The rep is suppossed to be here in a couple weeks so I guess I'm waiting to get an answer from him.
If the tech spoke to corporate service 6 times (which I verified he did) why would they not tell him to check the runout?
If the tech spoke to corporate service 6 times (which I verified he did) why would they not tell him to check the runout?
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
Sure about that? IIRC, the tech claims that the sumping occurs with either the OEM cam plate or the 25284-11 cam plate. Which cam plate is currently installed?
Suggest that since you have two threads running on the same subject that you delete the other one; you could miss something. If you can't delete yourself, email a moderator and have them delete it.
Suggest that since you have two threads running on the same subject that you delete the other one; you could miss something. If you can't delete yourself, email a moderator and have them delete it.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: so fl
Sure about that? IIRC, the tech claims that the sumping occurs with either the OEM cam plate or the 25284-11 cam plate. Which cam plate is currently installed?
Suggest that since you have two threads running on the same subject that you delete the other one; you could miss something. If you can't delete yourself, email a moderator and have them delete it.
Suggest that since you have two threads running on the same subject that you delete the other one; you could miss something. If you can't delete yourself, email a moderator and have them delete it.
Yes I'm sure that block off screw is installed. Initially it wasn't and it wasn't keeping oil pressure so they had to order the oil "boss" and installed it fixing the pressure problem
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
I will try to delete the other one or get it deleted since now it is found that the problem is sumping
Yes I'm sure that block off screw is installed. Initially it wasn't and it wasn't keeping oil pressure so they had to order the oil "boss" and installed it fixing the pressure problem
Yes I'm sure that block off screw is installed. Initially it wasn't and it wasn't keeping oil pressure so they had to order the oil "boss" and installed it fixing the pressure problem
The problem could still be the fitment of the pump intake at the scavenge port. I have solved a sumping problem before by installing an o-ring from a softail oil plug on the intake port before installing the scavenge port o-ring as a sort of spacer to force the scavenge port o-ring well into the scavenge port with and to insure a tight fit.
I have reached out to some of the members on the HTT forum where I have been a member for years and, so far, those guys are also stumped, so I am very curious about this problem and the fix. Please keep us posted and if the HTT guys come up with any suggestions, I will pass them on.
Last edited by djl; Jan 25, 2012 at 02:27 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: so fl
OK, that's out of the way; the mystery remains unsolved! I have reached out to some of the members on the HTT forum where I have been a member for years and, so far, those guys are also stumped, so I am very curious about this problem and the fix. Please keep us posted and if the HTT guys come up with any suggestions, I will pass them on.
the SE plate is currently installed
Is what the tech said about the pump gears not having damadge so there should not be enough run-out to cause sumping correct?
The tech seems to be sincerely upset that he cant fix it and genuinely seems to want to fix it but doesnt know what else to do