Harley Layoffs
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 806
From: Washington
I Agree!
Aussie dog makes some good points, but lets look at it from the person with the wallet in hand. Yes, buy more bikes. We all would love to go out every year and buy a new one I'm sure, But we all have to make smart choices with our money. Taking the windshield line as an example, I just bought a Klock Werks Pro-Touring Flare shield. Now I did look at the HD windsplitter, but honestly, I got a better deal on the Flare. Most of us have discretionary incomes, and have to watch closely what we buy. Hell, I have blowing a lot of money on top of my bike purchase. But every part I buy, I research to find the best price. Sucks, but that is my reality.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 528
Likes: 14
From: pittsburgh
More manufacturing jobs are lost to automation than to jobs being moved to another country for cheaper labor. It's the same thing that happened to agriculture.
Regarding Harley, if they want to sell more bike and increase their customer base, they need to make bikes that more people want. Adventure bikes are the hottest segment on two wheels. Sport touring? They're having trouble getting younger riders interested in the brand. They will continue to have trouble attracting younger riders. Ah but they have a new v-twin engine that sits in the same lineup they've had for years.
Regarding Harley, if they want to sell more bike and increase their customer base, they need to make bikes that more people want. Adventure bikes are the hottest segment on two wheels. Sport touring? They're having trouble getting younger riders interested in the brand. They will continue to have trouble attracting younger riders. Ah but they have a new v-twin engine that sits in the same lineup they've had for years.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 616
Likes: 38
thats still alot of people that one mans decision can effect in a bad way I sure wouldnt want someone who wasnt the best they could find to make those decisions and the best are usually smart enough to be compensated well.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 268
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
Absolutely true, and well said, Sir!
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 616
Likes: 38
The problem I see with alot of people in this country is they believe a investor or group of investors start a business for the sole purpose of hiring people and keeping them employeed but in reality they are started to make money for the investor who took the risk and jobs are just a byproduct of said risk.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 283
From: Long Island NY
[QUOTE=SG -KJ;15478864]
Hey Brother, don't waste your time with these guys, lots of them have "Union Envy", never been or never had the opportunity to be in a labor Union so in their world all Unions have to be bad. Ask them all if they had the opportunity to get a good paying job, a safe working environment, health benefits, paid vacation and Holidays and a pension or some form of compensation at the end of their career and ALL THEY HAD TO DO was join a labor Union how many would say no? Not too many I think...and most of the hate is directed at Public sector Unions, the ones that directly affect their taxes, the Cops, the Teachers, the road workers, all paid for by their taxes. They all think we're the road crew that they pass, 1 guy working and 5 guys watching, LOL. We are Private sector, different rules. My Union (International Union of Operating Engineers) is VERY specific, you go out to a site YOU'D BETTER produce for the Contractor or there are repercussions, you'll be sitting down the Hall for a long time. But haters don't get that, all they see is us getting a nice salary and benefits and they hate because they can't/don't get the same thing. I worked over 40 years for a Union, worked many high profile jobs here in NYC (including Ground Zero after the attack, funny I don't remember anyone complaining about my Union affiliation at that time), I'm retired now with a nice pension and benefits, that plus my Military pension and Social Security, I'm doing O.K.. You'll get there too, all the best, safe riding and safe working...
Unionism is geared to mediocrity, the highly motivated productive worker is compensated the same as the slacker, cut and dried.
Ok, gonna keep this going I guess.
Sorry man but not as "cut and dried" as you think. Not all labor Unions are the same. Some Unions do shine a dark light on Unions in general, I realize and admit this.
Here's something that even friends and family with a non-Union viewpoint are surprised to learn. In many labor Unions such as skilled trade construction (Plumbers, Electricians , Pipefitters, Hvac etc etc.) there are no seniority rules. None, zero zip nada. You don't produce you get laid off. Period. Regardless of age, time in the union or with the company. Most Union trades involve four years of schooling and apprenticeship. Not all contracts are the same but the majority of us get zero paid vacations and only one paid day off. Labor Day actually. We make a good hourly wage but no work equals no pay. Period. Don't get paid for Christmas, Thanksgiving, sick days etc. etc.
Also the starting pay is just that, the more "motivated and productive workers" are free to ask for more money, company truck, car allowance etc. The contractors are free to pay over scale and they do.
So yeah, maybe not so "cut and dried".
Ok, gonna keep this going I guess.
Sorry man but not as "cut and dried" as you think. Not all labor Unions are the same. Some Unions do shine a dark light on Unions in general, I realize and admit this.
Here's something that even friends and family with a non-Union viewpoint are surprised to learn. In many labor Unions such as skilled trade construction (Plumbers, Electricians , Pipefitters, Hvac etc etc.) there are no seniority rules. None, zero zip nada. You don't produce you get laid off. Period. Regardless of age, time in the union or with the company. Most Union trades involve four years of schooling and apprenticeship. Not all contracts are the same but the majority of us get zero paid vacations and only one paid day off. Labor Day actually. We make a good hourly wage but no work equals no pay. Period. Don't get paid for Christmas, Thanksgiving, sick days etc. etc.
Also the starting pay is just that, the more "motivated and productive workers" are free to ask for more money, company truck, car allowance etc. The contractors are free to pay over scale and they do.
So yeah, maybe not so "cut and dried".
Last edited by IUOE ROB; Sep 5, 2016 at 05:00 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,865
Likes: 517
From: georgia
rob you are spot on I was a union worker for over 30 years now I am on disability retirement drawing my pension pulling off my 401k and ssi disability , I live in a right to work state we had free riders and scabs both on the payroll getting the benefits our local negotiated and they hated the company but not enough to quit they knew the gravy train was the best going , listen don't be a hater if you haven't been there there's no one holding a gun to your head making you work there
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 283
From: Long Island NY
rob you are spot on I was a union worker for over 30 years now I am on disability retirement drawing my pension pulling off my 401k and ssi disability , I live in a right to work state we had free riders and scabs both on the payroll getting the benefits our local negotiated and they hated the company but not enough to quit they knew the gravy train was the best going , listen don't be a hater if you haven't been there there's no one holding a gun to your head making you work there
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 466
Likes: 206
From: Long Island,NY
[QUOTE=IUOE ROB;15482118]
Hey Brother, don't waste your time with these guys, lots of them have "Union Envy", never been or never had the opportunity to be in a labor Union so in their world all Unions have to be bad. Ask them all if they had the opportunity to get a good paying job, a safe working environment, health benefits, paid vacation and Holidays and a pension or some form of compensation at the end of their career and ALL THEY HAD TO DO was join a labor Union how many would say no? Not too many I think...and most of the hate is directed at Public sector Unions, the ones that directly affect their taxes, the Cops, the Teachers, the road workers, all paid for by their taxes. They all think we're the road crew that they pass, 1 guy working and 5 guys watching, LOL. We are Private sector, different rules. My Union (International Union of Operating Engineers) is VERY specific, you go out to a site YOU'D BETTER produce for the Contractor or there are repercussions, you'll be sitting down the Hall for a long time. But haters don't get that, all they see is us getting a nice salary and benefits and they hate because they can't/don't get the same thing. I worked over 40 years for a Union, worked many high profile jobs here in NYC (including Ground Zero after the attack, funny I don't remember anyone complaining about my Union affiliation at that time), I'm retired now with a nice pension and benefits, that plus my Military pension and Social Security, I'm doing O.K.. You'll get there too, all the best, safe riding and safe working...
I agree. Work Union,live better. All the anti union bull I'm reading here makes me ill. The people spewing this nonsense forget that the 40 hr week,overtime pay,and much of the labor laws we take for granted were hard fought and won by unions. The employers didn't give these things out of the goodness of their hearts. Non Union shops will pay a semi decent wage to stop their employees from going to UNION JOBS. So,if your making decent money at your non union job,THANK A UNION. And yes I am a proud member of the IAM.
Hey Brother, don't waste your time with these guys, lots of them have "Union Envy", never been or never had the opportunity to be in a labor Union so in their world all Unions have to be bad. Ask them all if they had the opportunity to get a good paying job, a safe working environment, health benefits, paid vacation and Holidays and a pension or some form of compensation at the end of their career and ALL THEY HAD TO DO was join a labor Union how many would say no? Not too many I think...and most of the hate is directed at Public sector Unions, the ones that directly affect their taxes, the Cops, the Teachers, the road workers, all paid for by their taxes. They all think we're the road crew that they pass, 1 guy working and 5 guys watching, LOL. We are Private sector, different rules. My Union (International Union of Operating Engineers) is VERY specific, you go out to a site YOU'D BETTER produce for the Contractor or there are repercussions, you'll be sitting down the Hall for a long time. But haters don't get that, all they see is us getting a nice salary and benefits and they hate because they can't/don't get the same thing. I worked over 40 years for a Union, worked many high profile jobs here in NYC (including Ground Zero after the attack, funny I don't remember anyone complaining about my Union affiliation at that time), I'm retired now with a nice pension and benefits, that plus my Military pension and Social Security, I'm doing O.K.. You'll get there too, all the best, safe riding and safe working...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 6,354
From: pacific northwest
[QUOTE=deadbroke;15484636]
unions have good and bad points. I belong to a union, and I detest the fact that a lot of my dues money goes to help elect the obama's and clinton's that have almost destroyed a lot of union jobs , lets take the keystone pipeline, how many union pipe welders would that employ, yet their boy obama has held that up for years. what about union coal miners?
I think a lot of the rank and file members feel this way, but the union management cares only about their power, and the only thing the want from the membership is the dues money.
I agree. Work Union,live better. All the anti union bull I'm reading here makes me ill. The people spewing this nonsense forget that the 40 hr week,overtime pay,and much of the labor laws we take for granted were hard fought and won by unions. The employers didn't give these things out of the goodness of their hearts. Non Union shops will pay a semi decent wage to stop their employees from going to UNION JOBS. So,if your making decent money at your non union job,THANK A UNION. And yes I am a proud member of the IAM.
I think a lot of the rank and file members feel this way, but the union management cares only about their power, and the only thing the want from the membership is the dues money.