You are correct good sir

 

Does your mom know your still awake?

 

deleted

 

I am recounting a bit of the history of this thread....

Prior to the post I have quoted, there was discussion about counter-steering in a turn. Everyone, and I mean everyone, told me the same thing, they said that you always counter-steer through a turn.

One thing I know about counter-steering is that the front wheel is pointed in a direction opposite to the lean. So if we are supposed to counter-steer in the turn then the front wheel must always be pointed in the direction opposite to the direction we want to go.

To verify this, I searched the net for pictures of bikes taking corners. I found the above picture of the green bike taking a corner at a high lean angle. To me it does not appear the front wheel is turned to the drivers left (our right). It did not look to me like the driver was counter-steering. So I posted that image and stated that I did not think that the driver in that picture was counter-steering at this point in the turn.

That post started a long discussion. Everyone, and again I mean, everyone, told me that I was wrong. The wheel had to be turned to the left because it was impossible for the bike to be in a corner like that without counter-steering. I was told that the wheel was turned to the left but I just could not see it because of the angle of the picture. Even though the evidence contradicted them, everyone maintained that the wheel must be turned to the left by some small amount because it is impossible to negotiate the turn without counter-steering through it.

But then I found the little, and now, infamous, Diagram. The Diagram depicts the Look, Lean and Roll method for taking a turn. It showed that you do not have to be counter-steering in a turn. (You can counter steer in the turn but you do not have to counter-steer in the turn).




That Diagram, coupled with the picture of the the green motorcycle, indicated to me that something was missing from the prior discussion in the thread about counter-steering in a corner. I wanted to know who was right? Was the Diagram correct or were the members correct?


(more to come later).

 

If you really believe the post quoted above, you must not really ride. As was posted a long time ago, a 'picture' cannot be used to determine the principle of counter steering, find a usable video. The rider in the picture might be moving the handlebar to adjust the lean/direction of the turn, in the process of crashing/going off course, or might be going too slow to be counter steering. Reread, you ever read, paragraphs 2 and 3 in post #121. Instead of "To verify this, I searched the net for pictures of bikes taking corners.", try riding a motorcycle and looking down at the top of the triple clamps while taking a fast turn. Then get back to us with your results.

If you don't believe "that the wheel must be turned to the left by some small amount because it is impossible to negotiate the turn without counter-steering" try riding a motorcycle and keep the front wheel turned in the direction of the turn, at speed, and get back to us. If you lie, anybody that rides will instantly know it. Of course due to the anonymity of the internet, you will be spared the embarrassment of being branded a liar by anyone you know.

I would write that your foolishness does a disservice to people coming here looking for information except that since most counter steering is done without the need for thinking/intentional action you foolishness doesn't really matter."To verify this, I searched the net for pictures of bikes taking corners." is nothing more then proof that there is a difference between looking at a picture and actually 'doing' something.

 

I like this video. I never really looked at the corner as moving towards or away from me. But I get it. I know that when I ride, I do so using as many reference points as I can. It's amazing at how many things your brain can process and adjust your movements accordingly, while hurtling down the road.

 

You must be a mind reader because your post #121 was exactly the post that was in my mind when I was writing part of my previous post. I remember that you were the one who was so adamant that the front wheel had to be turned to the left during the entire turn.

When leaning we are riding on the edge of the tire, the counter-steer is how the bike gets on the edge of the tire.

Please watch this video. Note that the narrator says that he "steers into the turn" after the counter-steer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc#t=2m0s

 

I posted that video because I think the narrator describes it really good.

 

As it happens I'm currently reading the book "Mastering the Ride - More Proficient Motorcycling, 2nd Edition" by David L. Hough.

Just started the chapter on cornering, and already I've seen all your questions answered. You should pick up a copy.

That is, if you're really seeking answers and not just cyber-wanking in front of a mass audience.

 

And its also how the bike stays on the edge of the tire.

Ummm.. Yeah, but notice he's also talking about low speed maneuvering, not riding at speed. Big difference there.

You might want to give the video a listen again. Somewhere around 3:45 there's a comment to the effect of "Your bike has a natural tendency to stay upright, which gets stronger the faster you go. So, the faster you go, the more you need to actively countersteer, even through the turn, to overcome the self righting tendency. At race speeds, racers are actually using a tremendous amount of countersteering force just to keep their bikes leaned over". This is a direct quote.

This is counter to what you've been telling us all along, which is, no countersteering is going on once a bike is leaned over in a corner.

Your comments?