Buying used: best engine
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 112
Likes: 62
From: blue ridge mountains
Buying used: best engine
Hey guys, new dude coming from a vulcan 1600 and wanting to get something along the lines of a heritage, fat boy, etc. Something "fat" and low for cruising. I'm not into speed, just want something reliable. I'll be looking at older bikes. Probably starting with mid-90's up to mid 2000's models. I've heard bad things about cam tensioners and whatnot, and top end rebuilds at 40-50k. I ride 10-15k a year, and will most likely be purchasing something with some miles on it already so I want it to last.
What engine/trans should I focus on? Currently I'm starting my search and don't know much about the different Harley engines. I've heard a lot of good things about the EVO motor, not so much in terms of power, but in reliability. So, lay it on me! What should I be looking for?
Thanks!
What engine/trans should I focus on? Currently I'm starting my search and don't know much about the different Harley engines. I've heard a lot of good things about the EVO motor, not so much in terms of power, but in reliability. So, lay it on me! What should I be looking for?
Thanks!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 21,732
Likes: 17,569
From: Driftless Area
A lot of people consider the Evo the best engine H-D ever made. I'm in that camp.
I've experienced fantastic reliability. I think that engine also responds very well to well-thought-out performance upgrades without sacrificing any of that reliability.
But what do I know...I've also got an AMF-era Shovelhead with 264,000 miles on it, that is ready to go coast-to-coast anytime I feel like it.
I've experienced fantastic reliability. I think that engine also responds very well to well-thought-out performance upgrades without sacrificing any of that reliability.
But what do I know...I've also got an AMF-era Shovelhead with 264,000 miles on it, that is ready to go coast-to-coast anytime I feel like it.
Personally, I'm a very biased, pro-Evo guy, so that's where I'd be looking.
But that's just me.
Question of time/effort/budget. There are still low mile, bone stock Evo garage queens out there. It might take some patience and effort to find the right you, and you might pay a bit more for one, but IMHO that is money well spent. Actually, that's true no matter which way you go. Look for originality first, whether its an Evo or a TC.
But that's just me.
Question of time/effort/budget. There are still low mile, bone stock Evo garage queens out there. It might take some patience and effort to find the right you, and you might pay a bit more for one, but IMHO that is money well spent. Actually, that's true no matter which way you go. Look for originality first, whether its an Evo or a TC.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 17,625
Likes: 1,665
From: Blairsville GA
As a charter member of the "hear no Evo, see no Evo, ride no Evo" club I avoided even riding one for about 5 years after introduction. When I finally rode and bought my first "Jap" Harley, a '90 Electraglide, I was very impressed.
Evo Softails are a different animal, and have a well earned reputation for longevity and vibrating like paint shakers.
IMO, opinions garnered from an internet forum are far less useful than an actual (long) test ride under the conditions you anticipate. A 15 to 25 year old bike that has survived this long is probably good for the long haul.
Good luck in your search.
Evo Softails are a different animal, and have a well earned reputation for longevity and vibrating like paint shakers.
IMO, opinions garnered from an internet forum are far less useful than an actual (long) test ride under the conditions you anticipate. A 15 to 25 year old bike that has survived this long is probably good for the long haul.
Good luck in your search.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 3,727
From: St. Charles, MO
Ok, so since the OP is coming off a Vulcan, and therefore probably has NO IDEA what an "Evo" even is...
The 80-inch Evolution motor is what is found in all 1990's era "Big Twin" (non-Sportster) Harleys. In fact, the "Evo" was the "Big Twin" from 1984 until 1998 for all, and 1999 for some, Harley Davidson's that weren't Sportsters.
In 1999, Harley introduced the 88-inch "Twin Cam" motor in the Touring and Dynaglide families, and in all Big Twins starting in 2000. Carbureted twin cams up to 2002 are pretty decent engines.
The cam chain tensioners you have heard about will ONLY apply to the Twin Cams (aka "Twinkies"). Once replaced to the newer hydraulic tensioners, they're not something that is a real issue.
As to "which is better", I think the short answer is that depends on who you ask. Both can give you 100,000 miles between top-end rebuilds if you don't modify it heavily and you take care of it.
Find one that's been taken care of, and not heavily modified, and I think you'll get miles and miles of smiles out of either one.
The 80-inch Evolution motor is what is found in all 1990's era "Big Twin" (non-Sportster) Harleys. In fact, the "Evo" was the "Big Twin" from 1984 until 1998 for all, and 1999 for some, Harley Davidson's that weren't Sportsters.
In 1999, Harley introduced the 88-inch "Twin Cam" motor in the Touring and Dynaglide families, and in all Big Twins starting in 2000. Carbureted twin cams up to 2002 are pretty decent engines.
The cam chain tensioners you have heard about will ONLY apply to the Twin Cams (aka "Twinkies"). Once replaced to the newer hydraulic tensioners, they're not something that is a real issue.
As to "which is better", I think the short answer is that depends on who you ask. Both can give you 100,000 miles between top-end rebuilds if you don't modify it heavily and you take care of it.
Find one that's been taken care of, and not heavily modified, and I think you'll get miles and miles of smiles out of either one.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 620
From: Pittsburgh suburb
As a charter member of the "hear no Evo, see no Evo, ride no Evo" club I avoided even riding one for about 5 years after introduction. When I finally rode and bought my first "Jap" Harley, a '90 Electraglide, I was very impressed.
Evo Softails are a different animal, and have a well earned reputation for longevity and vibrating like paint shakers.
IMO, opinions garnered from an internet forum are far less useful than an actual (long) test ride under the conditions you anticipate. A 15 to 25 year old bike that has survived this long is probably good for the long haul.
Good luck in your search.
Evo Softails are a different animal, and have a well earned reputation for longevity and vibrating like paint shakers.
IMO, opinions garnered from an internet forum are far less useful than an actual (long) test ride under the conditions you anticipate. A 15 to 25 year old bike that has survived this long is probably good for the long haul.
Good luck in your search.
I had shirts made & still have one with that saying on the back of it in an evil script...........those shirts sold like hot cakes, that's when the waiting list was in full swing & was very competitive, shovels were selling for a ridiculous amount, I built a custom sporty - 75 & sold that bike in 02 for $6800 then the moco ramped up production!
Thanks for that deja vu
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 17,625
Likes: 1,665
From: Blairsville GA
Wow...........Back in the late 90`s (96/97) I had a bike shop - we worked on British - Japanese & American. I was a die hard shovel guy.
I had shirts made & still have one with that saying on the back of it in an evil script...........those shirts sold like hot cakes, that's when the waiting list was in full swing & was very competitive, shovels were selling for a ridiculous amount, I built a custom sporty - 75 & sold that bike in 02 for $6800 then the moco ramped up production!
Thanks for that deja vu
I had shirts made & still have one with that saying on the back of it in an evil script...........those shirts sold like hot cakes, that's when the waiting list was in full swing & was very competitive, shovels were selling for a ridiculous amount, I built a custom sporty - 75 & sold that bike in 02 for $6800 then the moco ramped up production!
Thanks for that deja vu
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 17
From: Williamsport, Pa
2006 vivid black deluxe low mileage might be something to look at. That sound like good choice don't worry about the tensioner. Most people who spent that 1500 to change the 16 dollar part still have the noise from the stator wheel splines wearing and hats also easy replacement part. The cam tensioner pad last 50+ k atleast and there easy to change with an investment of adjustable pushrods.(150$) ( easy to cam case work in future also). Stators are about 1 hour job anyone can do if you have torgue wrench and the sockets and allens needed. Evos are nice also there not counter balance that's probally biggest diffence you would feel if you road them next to each other but still very nice ride. But for 4500-8000 you should be able to find perfect lowmilage bike if you don't rush in. Good luck
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 15
From: Belgium, Brabant
Both Twincam and EVO are good choices...
The twincam is a more modern feull injected engine and might lean closer to what you're used to on an asian motor. Vibrates less and a little more HP than a stock EVO.
An EVO has earned its stripes in reliability and rebuildability.
In stockform it has a little less power than TWINCAM but has plenty of torque and is fun to ride. With some tweaks however a EVO can be made into a beast! (be it a teddybeast or a bull, depending on contents of your wallet)
Evo vibrates more BUT WILL GIVE YOU the real Harley heartbeat (stationairy tadum tadum dum tadum sound). -------- Twincam won't do that!!!!!
To me an EVO feels less sterile than a Twincam and gives you more Feel of the bike.
There is difference in frames too, as Evo softails have lower seathight than Twincam softails. You feel more like sitting 'IN' the bike and might be a good choice if you are a smaller person.
Anyone with a service-manual and some tools can work on an EVO. No computerised stuff. This means that you can get your business to almost any Indy or local garage with tools and some know how.
Happy hunting and keep us posted ;-)
The twincam is a more modern feull injected engine and might lean closer to what you're used to on an asian motor. Vibrates less and a little more HP than a stock EVO.
An EVO has earned its stripes in reliability and rebuildability.
In stockform it has a little less power than TWINCAM but has plenty of torque and is fun to ride. With some tweaks however a EVO can be made into a beast! (be it a teddybeast or a bull, depending on contents of your wallet)
Evo vibrates more BUT WILL GIVE YOU the real Harley heartbeat (stationairy tadum tadum dum tadum sound). -------- Twincam won't do that!!!!!
To me an EVO feels less sterile than a Twincam and gives you more Feel of the bike.
There is difference in frames too, as Evo softails have lower seathight than Twincam softails. You feel more like sitting 'IN' the bike and might be a good choice if you are a smaller person.
Anyone with a service-manual and some tools can work on an EVO. No computerised stuff. This means that you can get your business to almost any Indy or local garage with tools and some know how.
Happy hunting and keep us posted ;-)
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 112
Likes: 62
From: blue ridge mountains
Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, I appreciate it. I'm aware of the history of what the Evolution and Twin Cam engines are in design, and that the Evo was the first all aluminum mill - I simply have no experience with them other than day rides. I have several friends with heritages, glides, fat boys, etc, but most of them have only had 1 or 2 harleys so can only comment on what THEY have owned of course. I've ridden a few old knuckle's, pans, modern twinkies, only one 80's evo, and even a couple AMF rattle traps! I'm just trying to harness the collective wisdom here to point me to the best ride for my money. Again, day rides are my only hands-on experience with Harleys. I'm no stranger to turning a wrench, as I have a couple hot rods that i've built, and a small collection of vintage ricers that I've rebuilt. I'm certainly not opposed to working on whatever Harley I pick up. I'd just rather enjoy the most smiles per mile as possible as I'll be keeping a Harley for the rest of my riding life.