Open Letter To Harley Davidson
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 11,757
From: Omaha,NE
LOL, my age is showing. Good catch.
Banned
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,576
Likes: 978
From: Viet Vet, crossroads
Some people here and everywhere say AMF bought HD and QC went dwn the toilet, .it was quite the opposite.
The UNION workers were purposely sabotaging the bikes on the assembly lines.
They were not striking, they were just not happy, so that is how they addressed the issues.
They almost killed the company, Hoorah for them?
I have that info straight from Freds mouth, the guy that owned the Shop in Bham wa. ( not fred smith)
AMF bought out HD and saved their ****.
They got it going and Willie bought it back.
the BiG trouble is WILLIE IS NOT THERE ANYMORE.
The UNION workers were purposely sabotaging the bikes on the assembly lines.
They were not striking, they were just not happy, so that is how they addressed the issues.
They almost killed the company, Hoorah for them?
I have that info straight from Freds mouth, the guy that owned the Shop in Bham wa. ( not fred smith)
AMF bought out HD and saved their ****.
They got it going and Willie bought it back.
the BiG trouble is WILLIE IS NOT THERE ANYMORE.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 23,816
Likes: 57,355
From: Tampa, FL
HD can survive by being the premium motorcycle manufacturer. They will sell less but make more profit per unit. That's they only way they can compete the current low buying market.
Others like Polaris, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, etc. can cut back and make profit on the other things they manufacturer. I'm still amazed at the side by side market and how well the sling shot sells for Polaris. There's a big market at selling small electric utility vehicles used for maintenance for large sites like college campuses or military bases. Think that doesn't allow Polaris or the others flexibility?
If I had to guess I would say HD's downfall will be their lack of product diversity if people stop buying motorcycles altogether.
Others like Polaris, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, etc. can cut back and make profit on the other things they manufacturer. I'm still amazed at the side by side market and how well the sling shot sells for Polaris. There's a big market at selling small electric utility vehicles used for maintenance for large sites like college campuses or military bases. Think that doesn't allow Polaris or the others flexibility?
If I had to guess I would say HD's downfall will be their lack of product diversity if people stop buying motorcycles altogether.
Last edited by Walter White; Jun 4, 2018 at 04:52 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 492
From: Heart of Georgia
There is one obvious fact that seems to have been missed in this discussion thus far. Harley Davidson is in business to make money by building and selling motorcycles. They are not in business to provide jobs. Their employees have jobs only inasmuch as they are able to further the companys goal, which is to make money building and selling motorcycles. Its called capitalism. Too bad things didnt work out in KC. Too bad it didnt work out for the Honda employees in Maryville, Ohio. **** happens. My take is that Harley got too big for their britches. They produced way more motorcycles than the market demanded. As an aside, the VRod flopped because it was the answer to a question that wasnt asked. Nice motorcycle but why not just buy a VMax? But I digress. Time was, not that long ago, you couldnt just walk into a Harley dealership, pick out a bike and ride it home. You had to order it and go on a waiting list. My prediction? Those days are coming back before long. Harleys dealer network is great but its unsustainable unless motorcycle sales in general see a vast resurgence. Doesnt matter what kind of innovations they come up with. There is still a strong demand for Harleys. It just isnt strong enough to support their current infrastructure. They will survive but the market will force them to downsize just as it has done in the past. And, unfortunately, employees will lose their jobs in the process. Such is life in a capitalist economy.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,239
Likes: 3,261
From: west Michigan
Some people here and everywhere say AMF bought HD and QC went dwn the toilet, .it was quite the opposite.
The UNION workers were purposely sabotaging the bikes on the assembly lines.
They were not striking, they were just not happy, so that is how they addressed the issues.
They almost killed the company, Hoorah for them?
I have that info straight from Freds mouth, the guy that owned the Shop in Bham wa. ( not fred smith)
AMF bought out HD and saved their ****.
They got it going and Willie bought it back.
the BiG trouble is WILLIE IS NOT THERE ANYMORE.
The UNION workers were purposely sabotaging the bikes on the assembly lines.
They were not striking, they were just not happy, so that is how they addressed the issues.
They almost killed the company, Hoorah for them?
I have that info straight from Freds mouth, the guy that owned the Shop in Bham wa. ( not fred smith)
AMF bought out HD and saved their ****.
They got it going and Willie bought it back.
the BiG trouble is WILLIE IS NOT THERE ANYMORE.
If you have workers sabotaging the product, you've got management problems.
The problems my AMF Sportster had weren't due to sabotage; they were caused by poor Quality Control.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,442
Likes: 418
From: South Carolina
Exactly right.
Back in those days, HD was a niche brand. They were selling, what, something like 30k units/year? Whatever the number, it was a small fraction of what it became later.
That gets to the fundamental dilemma the company is facing. They want the brand to represent the social and cultural space it occupied in 1968...where the guys buying them were a special breed of dedicated enthusiasts, but they also want to be a mass-market brand.
I don't think they can do both.
They had a run, roughly from 1988 to 2005 lets say, where they did manage to bridge that gap, but the reason they were able to was because the guys who were buying brought with them that image of the HD culture from the 60's and 70's. The guy who was 45 in 1995 was 18 in 1968, and to him the idea of HD ownership had a fairly specific meaning. The guys riding HD's in 1968 (and there weren't a lot of them) were admired for their individualism, their sense of non-conformity, their freedom, their independence. Plus, they were a little dangerous. You can't over-estimate how appealing that is as a marketing message.
The MoCo figured out that the way to sell Harleys (not motorcycles, but Harleys) to 45 year olds in 1995 was to convince them that by buying one, they could go back and become that guy they had admired in 1968. Plus, thanks to the Evo motor, the bikes were dramatically easier to live with, so becoming that guy wasn't nearly as demanding as it used to be.
Just like that, every well-stocked suburban garage had the Cherokee (hers) the Accord (his) and a shiny Harley in the corner. You might be a respectable mid-level corporate manager during the week, but come Saturday you can put on your pirate outfit and badass around with the best of them.
In their success, however, they also destroyed the underlying cultural perception that drove those sales.
If you were born after 1980, you were born into a culture that had a very different perception of HD's than the guys born from 1945 to 1965. Imagine the guy born in 1950, and imagine his mental image of a Harley rider in 1968. Now imagine the guy born in 2000, and imagine his mental image of a Harley rider today.
No comparison.
I don't have any answers to this, but I think this is the root of HD's troubles, and it isn't going to change.
What happens from here is anyone's guess. FWIW, my guess is that the MoCo continues to see long term, structural declines in motorcycle sales over the coming decades. I don't think there is anything they can do about it. I think motorcycles themselves are in long-term decline, and I think the HD's particular type of motorcycle is going to decline even faster.
I think young people today have disassociated transportation from socializing. That is why they are generally disinterested in driving, and it makes them even more disinterested in motorcycles. They are interested in tech gadgets and aps, not machinery. They would rather take a Uber, and look forward to the availability of driverless cars so they can twiddle on their phones as they move around. Obviously the MoCo agrees. There's only one reason to close the KC plant, and that is it.
But you never can tell. Motorcycles are highly emotional things, and something could come along tomorrow that reinvigorates demand.
For me, none of this really matters anyway. I'll continue to enjoy my bikes, and if I ever want another, I'll also enjoy the ridiculous bounty of amazing, low-cost bikes on the secondary market. Life is good.
Back in those days, HD was a niche brand. They were selling, what, something like 30k units/year? Whatever the number, it was a small fraction of what it became later.
That gets to the fundamental dilemma the company is facing. They want the brand to represent the social and cultural space it occupied in 1968...where the guys buying them were a special breed of dedicated enthusiasts, but they also want to be a mass-market brand.
I don't think they can do both.
They had a run, roughly from 1988 to 2005 lets say, where they did manage to bridge that gap, but the reason they were able to was because the guys who were buying brought with them that image of the HD culture from the 60's and 70's. The guy who was 45 in 1995 was 18 in 1968, and to him the idea of HD ownership had a fairly specific meaning. The guys riding HD's in 1968 (and there weren't a lot of them) were admired for their individualism, their sense of non-conformity, their freedom, their independence. Plus, they were a little dangerous. You can't over-estimate how appealing that is as a marketing message.
The MoCo figured out that the way to sell Harleys (not motorcycles, but Harleys) to 45 year olds in 1995 was to convince them that by buying one, they could go back and become that guy they had admired in 1968. Plus, thanks to the Evo motor, the bikes were dramatically easier to live with, so becoming that guy wasn't nearly as demanding as it used to be.
Just like that, every well-stocked suburban garage had the Cherokee (hers) the Accord (his) and a shiny Harley in the corner. You might be a respectable mid-level corporate manager during the week, but come Saturday you can put on your pirate outfit and badass around with the best of them.
In their success, however, they also destroyed the underlying cultural perception that drove those sales.
If you were born after 1980, you were born into a culture that had a very different perception of HD's than the guys born from 1945 to 1965. Imagine the guy born in 1950, and imagine his mental image of a Harley rider in 1968. Now imagine the guy born in 2000, and imagine his mental image of a Harley rider today.
No comparison.
I don't have any answers to this, but I think this is the root of HD's troubles, and it isn't going to change.
What happens from here is anyone's guess. FWIW, my guess is that the MoCo continues to see long term, structural declines in motorcycle sales over the coming decades. I don't think there is anything they can do about it. I think motorcycles themselves are in long-term decline, and I think the HD's particular type of motorcycle is going to decline even faster.
I think young people today have disassociated transportation from socializing. That is why they are generally disinterested in driving, and it makes them even more disinterested in motorcycles. They are interested in tech gadgets and aps, not machinery. They would rather take a Uber, and look forward to the availability of driverless cars so they can twiddle on their phones as they move around. Obviously the MoCo agrees. There's only one reason to close the KC plant, and that is it.
But you never can tell. Motorcycles are highly emotional things, and something could come along tomorrow that reinvigorates demand.
For me, none of this really matters anyway. I'll continue to enjoy my bikes, and if I ever want another, I'll also enjoy the ridiculous bounty of amazing, low-cost bikes on the secondary market. Life is good.
Its just a completely different mindset these days, a real throwaway society. As much as I love the features & reliability of vehicles & stuff today, I kinda miss being forced to learn all of that stuff.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 6,309
From: pacific northwest
about 2 years back I remember reading a news article about how the average age of the motorcyclist was 58 years old.the new generations just are not interested on motorcycles or other outdoor activities. when I was a kid I remember that a lot of others I went to school with had dirt bikes and many went on to street bikes but that is not the case any more. the motorcycle industry is down as a whole, not just HD. the only thing that interests the younger generations are those stupid phones and wasting away their life looking at them.