Reflex Defensive Rider Systems
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 288
Likes: 126
From: south of San Antonio TX
My feeling: all of these features should be quickly and easily disabled. Especially with first year technology, *way* too much chance for something to bug, and I for one don't wanna be parked out in the middle of nowhere because the friggin brain box decided something was wrong when it wasn't. Especially the way I like to reset my brain with long lonely rides through Middle of Nowhere, Texas!
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Likes: 2,860
From: SW FL-Jersey Shore Emigre
Reflex Defensive Rider Systems ? Not sure why they are afraid to just name it what it is--traction control and cornering ABS. Its been around for quite some time.
I am a bit surprised they are not offering it as a standard touring feature--where it would come in handy the most. Most of it is an optional add-on. Not surprised they are making you pay a premium for it. Most everyone else started offering these features as standard fare on touring bikes many years ago. But as someone pointed out elsewhere, I have been critical of their approach lately.
I am a bit surprised they are not offering it as a standard touring feature--where it would come in handy the most. Most of it is an optional add-on. Not surprised they are making you pay a premium for it. Most everyone else started offering these features as standard fare on touring bikes many years ago. But as someone pointed out elsewhere, I have been critical of their approach lately.
Not that those features wouldn't be nice to have available, if not standard.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Midwest
The sad fact is that touring Harleys don't have the horsepower or lean angle to really need traction control and cornering ABS, and aren't typically ridden in as "spirited" a manner (there ARE exceptions!) as sport/naked bikes.
Not that those features wouldn't be nice to have available, if not standard.
Not that those features wouldn't be nice to have available, if not standard.
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: SW FL-Jersey Shore Emigre
Ride Iron Mountain Road after a heavy rain. When you tour out west, there can be a lot of iffy conditions, especially on mountain roads. Rain and hail are common. At higher elevations, a dusting of snow or heavy frost is not uncommon in the morning, year-around. You will encounter patches of black ice here and there. At a place like Yellowstone, temps you encounter can often vary from 30-80 in a day. That's in the summer. Fall or spring riding can get real interesting pretty quickly. I have been to NH in October. There have been sudden squall whiteouts near Mt Washington. It thaws pretty quick but it still is encountered at times. IMO these features are a definite plus if you do plan on serious touring. I would like to have them on my next bike,
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Mar 2017
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From: Texas
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,905
Likes: 4,877
From: Midwest
Point well taken, although I'm not sure traction control would have helped you very much on that black ice-Glad you're OK! Regardless, once you implement throttle-by-wire, the rest is just software and there's little if any marginal cost to add traction control and rider modes. Shame on Harley for not offering it, if for nothing other than a marketing point.
I have gone over patches of black ice in Montana rockies in the summer.Almost always in the morning or in shaded areas that dont get much of any sun. Nights can get pretty cool and often below freezing and there is always melt runoff hitting the roads somewhere and it freezes up overnight. Going to the Sun Road.in Glacier is notorious for this. If there has been a cold spell. I wont ride early AM just because of this. And some sections have true black ice--you literally have no visual indication there is a patch of ice in the road. Suddenly feels like you hit one of those tar snake patches in the summer. It is very unnerving. If you are in a curve you probably are going down. Luckily I have never hit black ice in a curve and never had the bike do anything but juke and get tire spin. But it scares the living sht out of you for sure.
Here's a riders photo example of what i'm talking about. Runoff from melt hits the road in a lot of places. You hit that section in the morning after an overnight freeze you might need depends undergarments, especially considering the drop over the small rocky embankment is 2,000 feet down.. the water is still flowing so you dont think its frozen....stuff like this is all over the place and its easy to get complacent because the last two sections with runoff werent frozen so its ok, this upcoming one wont be either. .anything with water or shade is suspect
Last edited by MiniWolf; Aug 21, 2019 at 12:35 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Midwest
Also, I would add -- these tech features may or may not save your ***. But they can help you and they certainly are worth having in such scenarios...I practice, I train--.emergency braking, msf refreshers every eyar..practice practice practice..etc etc
But let me tell you this---when you do hit ice unexpectedly, especially while taking in the beautiful scenery on a glorious summers day in the mountains, your first instinct is going to be to grab a handful of brake like a scalded ape.....worse thing you can do on the ice..So yes, this is why I will take the traction control and abs and consider it a benefit for my type of interests and riding. Absolutely will take it.
But let me tell you this---when you do hit ice unexpectedly, especially while taking in the beautiful scenery on a glorious summers day in the mountains, your first instinct is going to be to grab a handful of brake like a scalded ape.....worse thing you can do on the ice..So yes, this is why I will take the traction control and abs and consider it a benefit for my type of interests and riding. Absolutely will take it.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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From: anacoco, la
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Mar 2017
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From: Texas
Skratch, we're saying the same thing, I'm not sure RedOregon is on the same page. Now, I'm confused as to what we're clarifying.
Regardless of year:
1) Applying rear brake also applies both front brakes (false for Touring models with linked brakes, true for Trike models with linked brakes)
2) Applying rear brake also applies only the front left brake (true for Touring models with linked brakes, false for Trike models with linked brakes)
3) Applying rear brake doesn't apply any front brakes (false for all models with linked brakes, true for all models without linked brakes)
It's worth noting that Touring models have "Reflex linked ABS" and Trike models have "linked brakes".
Yes, I know Trikes are Touring bikes, but they have different Owner's Manuals, so I named them according to that.
Regardless of year:
1) Applying rear brake also applies both front brakes (false for Touring models with linked brakes, true for Trike models with linked brakes)
2) Applying rear brake also applies only the front left brake (true for Touring models with linked brakes, false for Trike models with linked brakes)
3) Applying rear brake doesn't apply any front brakes (false for all models with linked brakes, true for all models without linked brakes)
It's worth noting that Touring models have "Reflex linked ABS" and Trike models have "linked brakes".
Yes, I know Trikes are Touring bikes, but they have different Owner's Manuals, so I named them according to that.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,967
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From: Jax FL
my take is that if it is only offered on the CVO, it is not "fully mature technology"
they want a small amount of users to test the system real world, and see how it works: the software/hardware, limits, inputs, sensors.
and THEN if it is good, they will use it down the line in the wider audience range.
IMHO, until they fix the ABS problem on existing bikes, they should hold off on more tech
HD has never been known for cutting edge tech, but stodgy traditionalism.
they want a small amount of users to test the system real world, and see how it works: the software/hardware, limits, inputs, sensors.
and THEN if it is good, they will use it down the line in the wider audience range.
IMHO, until they fix the ABS problem on existing bikes, they should hold off on more tech
HD has never been known for cutting edge tech, but stodgy traditionalism.