Total complete brake failure! Read!!!
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
Um... doesn't sound all that 'safe' to me. Might be 'safe' IF there was a fail safe mode engineered into Harley's system. A small percentage of water in the braking system and it totally fails? No thanks.
It isn't only motorcycles that are affected, we have a 2004 Chevrolet company pickup that has ABS that I took to Chicago a couple of years ago. I began hearing a slight ratcheting sound coming home when braking. I rolled into a toll booth on 294 and was standing on the brakes, pulling on the steering wheel as hard as I could and I still rolled past the toll booth window. Thank God there wasn't a vehicle already at the booth. ABS is great until it's not...
It isn't only motorcycles that are affected, we have a 2004 Chevrolet company pickup that has ABS that I took to Chicago a couple of years ago. I began hearing a slight ratcheting sound coming home when braking. I rolled into a toll booth on 294 and was standing on the brakes, pulling on the steering wheel as hard as I could and I still rolled past the toll booth window. Thank God there wasn't a vehicle already at the booth. ABS is great until it's not...
ABS is not the problem. Curious how other bike companies have done with ABS and linked braking.
Last edited by Zerk; Oct 20, 2019 at 09:19 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,540
Likes: 12,184
From: Indianapolis
Not an expert on ABS like the rest of the people here. But I have disconnect ABS modules and still used the brakes. I also know my trucks don't get their fluid changed every 2 years.
ABS is not the problem. Curious how other bike companies have done with ABS and linked braking.
ABS is not the problem. Curious how other bike companies have done with ABS and linked braking.
Judging from the OP's explanation of what happened, the fact that apparently Harley Davidson's ABS setup appears to have no fail safe/limp home mode. If there is a problem with the ABS system you have zero braking ability. That is obviously NOT safe since the OP rolled into an intersection and was damn near struck by a pickup truck.
There is no argument as to the merits of ABS, when it works. I'm just glad my 'bottom feeder' Sportster doesn't have it, one less thing to go wrong or worry about. If I were to have a master cylinder failure, I lose one braking system, and can still use the other. KISS is how I look at it.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,197
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From: England
Sorry, I don't see that the ABS has failed in this case. ABS will only activate if the wheel sensors tell the ABS module the wheels have locked. If for what ever reason you can't lock the wheels, (say lack of brake fluid which reduces the pressure available for operating the brakes) well the ABS isn't going to work is it? No skidding = no wheel lock = no activation of ABS. And as far as I know, that's the case for all ABS systems, not just HD's.
The original complaints about HD ABS 2008 - 2011 were well founded, but were sorted, HD could hardly do anything else with that sort of problem.
The issue here is, if we're getting the full picture, is where did all the moisture in the brake fluid come from to reach 4 - 5%?
The original complaints about HD ABS 2008 - 2011 were well founded, but were sorted, HD could hardly do anything else with that sort of problem.
The issue here is, if we're getting the full picture, is where did all the moisture in the brake fluid come from to reach 4 - 5%?
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 492
From: Heart of Georgia
I agree this story doesnt make sense. I have had brake failure due to moisture in DOT4 on my last bike (2011 Road Glide). In my case it was the front brakes only. The rear brake still worked fine. The front brake lever went to the grip but it worked after a few pumps. The symptoms were the same as having air in the line. I replaced the fluid and it was good as new. The idea that moisture in the fluid would cause complete and sudden failure of the entire braking system is not plausible. I had bought that bike used and dont know how long the fluid had been in there. The failure happened the first time I rode the bike in cold weather. The brakes began functioning normally as soon as I rode it a few miles and the system heated up. Moisture in the brake fluid will always give you some warning that theres something wrong. Your brakes wont just suddenly stop working.
Club Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,982
Likes: 1,587
From: Philadelphia, PA
Found this service bulletin on the web dated 2/8/18. Here’s the link.
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.o...%3D&reserved=0
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.o...%3D&reserved=0
Banned
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,406
Likes: 834
From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
You just made my point, ABS is great, until it's not.
Judging from the OP's explanation of what happened, the fact that apparently Harley Davidson's ABS setup appears to have no fail safe/limp home mode. If there is a problem with the ABS system you have zero braking ability. That is obviously NOT safe since the OP rolled into an intersection and was damn near struck by a pickup truck.
There is no argument as to the merits of ABS, when it works. I'm just glad my 'bottom feeder' Sportster doesn't have it, one less thing to go wrong or worry about. If I were to have a master cylinder failure, I lose one braking system, and can still use the other. KISS is how I look at it.
Judging from the OP's explanation of what happened, the fact that apparently Harley Davidson's ABS setup appears to have no fail safe/limp home mode. If there is a problem with the ABS system you have zero braking ability. That is obviously NOT safe since the OP rolled into an intersection and was damn near struck by a pickup truck.
There is no argument as to the merits of ABS, when it works. I'm just glad my 'bottom feeder' Sportster doesn't have it, one less thing to go wrong or worry about. If I were to have a master cylinder failure, I lose one braking system, and can still use the other. KISS is how I look at it.
Sorry, I don't see that the ABS has failed in this case. ABS will only activate if the wheel sensors tell the ABS module the wheels have locked. If for what ever reason you can't lock the wheels, (say lack of brake fluid which reduces the pressure available for operating the brakes) well the ABS isn't going to work is it? No skidding = no wheel lock = no activation of ABS. And as far as I know, that's the case for all ABS systems, not just HD's.
The original complaints about HD ABS 2008 - 2011 were well founded, but were sorted, HD could hardly do anything else with that sort of problem.
The issue here is, if we're getting the full picture, is where did all the moisture in the brake fluid come from to reach 4 - 5%?
The original complaints about HD ABS 2008 - 2011 were well founded, but were sorted, HD could hardly do anything else with that sort of problem.
The issue here is, if we're getting the full picture, is where did all the moisture in the brake fluid come from to reach 4 - 5%?
I have experienced issues with dot 5 fluid, with lever going all the way. But not over night.
Maybe dot 4 is this bad, maybe the guy hadn't rode it in a long time , maybe the brakes were not as good as he thought and came in to fast.
I tipped my 07 over when I bought it cause brakes were so good.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: anacoco, la
additionally, if you look in your car's owner's manual as well, it probably tells you to flush it periodically as well. might not be at 2 years, but there is a huge amount of difference in the volume between your bike and your car.
Last edited by skratch; Oct 21, 2019 at 07:08 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 5,077
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From: Plover, WI
I wasn't referring to the 2 year flush requirement. I was referring to the requirement of the DT II for a simple fluid flush/change. Prior SERVICE manuals required the use of the DT II only if air was introduced into the system.