Total complete brake failure! Read!!!
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 116
From: Raleigh, NC
We have been discussing this issue here for 10 years. Yes, when HD ABS fails due to hardware failures when the brake fluid has not been serviced properly, it fails UNSAFE. Meaning you have no brakes at all! This is a recurring problem that has caused many deaths and has been repeatedly reported to NHTSA. HD won't admit to these issues. This is because if they admitted fault, they would be responsible for all those who have had failures. Don't worry though, yours won't have this problem. You will be fine.
HD should be held accountable for that?
Banned
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,406
Likes: 834
From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
We have been discussing this issue here for 10 years. Yes, when HD ABS fails due to hardware failures when the brake fluid has not been serviced properly, it fails UNSAFE. Meaning you have no brakes at all! This is a recurring problem that has caused many deaths and has been repeatedly reported to NHTSA. HD won't admit to these issues. This is because if they admitted fault, they would be responsible for all those who have had failures. Don't worry though, yours won't have this problem. You will be fine.
What i the reason for dot 4 in bikes, since we use dot 3 in cars?
Last edited by Zerk; Oct 23, 2019 at 07:44 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 492
From: Heart of Georgia
Im with Zerk. Why is the HD ABS system any different from anyone elses ABS system? Seems to me if the NHTSA had evidence the design of HDs ABS system was causing people to die those bikes would be taken off the road and Harley Davidson wouldve been sued out of existence by now.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,806
Likes: 1,754
From: New Bern NC
Why do you keep bringing this up? The difference is a slight chemical difference in the make up rendering a higher boiling point in the DOT 4. What makes you think DOT 3 would have reacted any differently then DOT 4 in the OP's bike.
1. Boiling Point
The major difference between DOT 3 vs DOT 4 is the boiling point their tenacity to absorb water. DOT 3 is more prone to assimilate water because it has a lower boiling point. For this reason, it boils easily under hard and rough braking, which could ruin the braking components and cause subpar braking performance. For this reason, the DOT 4 fluid can easily replace DOT 3 but the second one should not be used as an alternative to the DOT 4 type until its absolutely necessary.2. The Chemical Structure
Another slight difference between DOT 3 vs DOT 4 brake fluid is their chemical components. DOT 3 has a blend of ether and polyalkylene glycol whereas a mixture of glycol and borate creates the DOT 4 fluid. The glycol-ether blend holds very well in hot and wet conditions, which is perfect for regular vehicles where the brakes get heated up easily. On the other hand, DOT 4s chemical ingredients that show a high level of water tolerance and stability under high temperatures.https://carfromjapan.com/article/car...4-brake-fluid/
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 952
Likes: 528
From: Richmond TX
HD's ABS brakes have (or had?) a failure mode that can render both front and rear brakes useless or close to useless. There are a couple of small valves in a small passage that can get stuck or frozen in such a way that your application of the brake lever/pedal does not result in full pressure being applied to the calipers. Likely they move enough to close the bypass circuit and get stuck there. This is what triggered the 2008-2011 ABS brake recall. The action taken in the recall was to simply bleed the brake system so that this corrosion related failure wouldn't happen, accompanied by a letter stating the need to have your brakes bled every 2 years going forward. Harley now sells a 'Dot 4 Platinum' brake fluid that exceeds Dot 4 minimum standards. This formulation may inhibit the corrosion.
I've never heard of any ABS failure that does more than simply revert you back to the performance of a non-ABS vehicle, except for this one.
If you're riding one of these bikes you probably want to stay on top of this and get your brakes bled periodically going forward.
If you have a newer bike, it may still be a concern. It may be that the ABS module has been revised, but I don't know that. Ideally, a design change would include different materials of construction to greatly reduce corrosion, and even better the basic functional design could be changed to ensure it will fail in a safe mode, i.e. always allowing the brakes to work.
Who has suffered this failure on a newer bike? The OP states he suffered this failure on his 2018 Heritage, which makes this post relevant to a whole lot of people. I hope the OP comes back and provides full details on what was found/replaced/fixed. Most of what he said lines up with the earlier failures, but he said one or two things that don't match up. The pot has been stirred.
I've never heard of any ABS failure that does more than simply revert you back to the performance of a non-ABS vehicle, except for this one.
If you're riding one of these bikes you probably want to stay on top of this and get your brakes bled periodically going forward.
If you have a newer bike, it may still be a concern. It may be that the ABS module has been revised, but I don't know that. Ideally, a design change would include different materials of construction to greatly reduce corrosion, and even better the basic functional design could be changed to ensure it will fail in a safe mode, i.e. always allowing the brakes to work.
Who has suffered this failure on a newer bike? The OP states he suffered this failure on his 2018 Heritage, which makes this post relevant to a whole lot of people. I hope the OP comes back and provides full details on what was found/replaced/fixed. Most of what he said lines up with the earlier failures, but he said one or two things that don't match up. The pot has been stirred.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 53
Likes: 13
From: Los Angeles
My Rear brake COMPLETELY Failed. Pedal went straight down. ZERO Response. My Front Brake had about 10% effect. My wife and I kept going.
Now THANKFULLY. Ive been riding long enough that I knew how to respond. I downshifted like a mother ****er, dropped it all the way into first, while pulling that front brake as HARD as I could to stop.
Now THANKFULLY. Ive been riding long enough that I knew how to respond. I downshifted like a mother ****er, dropped it all the way into first, while pulling that front brake as HARD as I could to stop.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,016
Likes: 6,910
From: NC
Just another example of Harley using technology that has been successful for many years with other manufacturers. But when Harley introduces it they manage to screw it up. Just because they want to make it "Harley" and proprietary?
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 232
From: Ohio
Some of you guys are asking the same questions that have been asked for 10 years. Why does HD fail unsafe while all others fail safe. This is exactly the question everyone has been asking with no answer from HD. They just claim they know nothing. Yes, you would think something would be done, but nothing has been done for those riding older, unsafe bikes. That is why we keep discussing this. If you don't think this is the case, do some research. This has been beaten to death for 10 years.
The only thing the OP statement doesn't line up with is that his brake went all the way down. This is not consistent with others failures where the brake levers will not move with the ABS module failure.
The only thing the OP statement doesn't line up with is that his brake went all the way down. This is not consistent with others failures where the brake levers will not move with the ABS module failure.
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Joe Kucinski
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,214
Likes: 661
From: Prior Lake, MN
I'm not sure what they could do for such a low price. At the dealers around here that'd get you an hours labor and a VERY inexpensive part.
Novice
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 6
From: Union Grove Ala
Thank goodness you guys are alright. Thank you for this post. I will be changing the fluid on mine and my wife's bikes. I've owned 6 Harley Davidson's and It seems as if the engineering is getting worse as each year comes. Even though mine and my wife's bikes have ABS, I had rather not have it. We bought her 2018 Road Glide Special in 2018 off the showroom floor and the dealerships have yet to figure out why her ABS isn't working and the ABS light stays on all the time. My 2017 CVO Street Glide has a issue with the TPMS - Tire pressure monitoring system and It has been to 4 dealerships and has not been fixed. 2 weeks ado I had to pay them to disable it because I was tired of the warning lights flashing in my face. As much as I love our Harley Davidson's, my wife and I are falling out of love with them. I know the words METRIC BIKES are forbidden on this forum but, I can honestly say that the best and most reliable motorcycle to this day that I have owned has been the 2008 Yamaha V Star 1300 Tourer. 75,000 plus miles and no problems. That's out of 21 motorcycles since I was 10 years old and I'm now 55.