Does HD intentionally NERF their engines?
Banned
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 261
From: Ohio
It's all about post sales dealer installed mods profit + profit for the parts.
I made the same comments in another thread and you're right it has nothing to do with the EPA since Screaming Eagle upgrades are 50 state legal and EPA compliant. Harley could easily use a better cam, air cleaner, exhaust and tune right from the factory but doing so will eat into the post sale earning potential for the dealers and the MoCo.
I don't agree that some people don't want more power. The correct statement is that some people don't want to pay extra for more power after the sale... If our bikes came stock with equal the power of a stage 2 no one would complain about them having too much power and not buy one.
I made the same comments in another thread and you're right it has nothing to do with the EPA since Screaming Eagle upgrades are 50 state legal and EPA compliant. Harley could easily use a better cam, air cleaner, exhaust and tune right from the factory but doing so will eat into the post sale earning potential for the dealers and the MoCo.
I don't agree that some people don't want more power. The correct statement is that some people don't want to pay extra for more power after the sale... If our bikes came stock with equal the power of a stage 2 no one would complain about them having too much power and not buy one.
If stage 2 would be the standard folks would complain and look for ways to increase power. If you want a performance bike and don't want to put another $5-10K into a $25K Harley buy a different brand - much cheaper, more reliable (check the data), yet it's not a Harley!
It's all about branding and the bottom line.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 293
Likes: 179
From: Paducah
Other manufacturers not playing the same parts game that Harley is doesn’t mean anything and complaining Harley gives you a lot of options to upgrade your motor should you want to just sounds weird. If a stock M8 isn’t powerful enough for you you have two options. 1 - do some upgrading. Or 2 - buy something else that has more stock power. The upgrade possibilities of a Harley motor while retaining factory warranty is a pretty great offering from a company.
Last edited by RJMsporty; May 24, 2020 at 06:46 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10,036
Likes: 10,767
From: SE Michigan
Ive been up to Wolverine HD too many times to count. When the new buyers step out of the finance office two things are always true: they are grinning from ear to ear and NONE of them ever have a gun to their head.
I bought a bike that can upgraded. At first I was thinking, why? It was more than I needed when I bought it. Im only now, after having put a few miles on it, considering a cam upgrade. I dont need to jump off the line like Im doing the quarter mile, but I appreciate a bit more at high RPM.
As a customer I appreciate options and upgrades. Its enjoyable just to consider the options.
I work. I **** my money away on my bike and it makes me happy. Pretty sure Im not alone.
I bought a bike that can upgraded. At first I was thinking, why? It was more than I needed when I bought it. Im only now, after having put a few miles on it, considering a cam upgrade. I dont need to jump off the line like Im doing the quarter mile, but I appreciate a bit more at high RPM.
As a customer I appreciate options and upgrades. Its enjoyable just to consider the options.
I work. I **** my money away on my bike and it makes me happy. Pretty sure Im not alone.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,238
Likes: 5,784
From: On the Big Blue marble
This is everything with a motor.
* Theres the general confort level
* Theres the good neighbor sound level
* Theres the EPA
I never hopped up an HD past a stage 1 and have always been happy
* Theres the general confort level
* Theres the good neighbor sound level
* Theres the EPA
I never hopped up an HD past a stage 1 and have always been happy
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 13,104
Likes: 13,047
From: Texas, USA
Yes, OP, Harley is intentionally screwing you over by selling bikes off the floor with sub par performance. If you want more HP/torque on a stock bike you bought the wrong brand. Buy a crotch rocket.
gamble71 pretty much summed it up. Most people who buy a Harley will leave it stock. On the forum, it may seem that performance upgrades are very common but the members here are a mere fraction of those owning Harleys.
gamble71 pretty much summed it up. Most people who buy a Harley will leave it stock. On the forum, it may seem that performance upgrades are very common but the members here are a mere fraction of those owning Harleys.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 5,276
Likes: 4,055
From: central Fl
i like my 013 ultra clasic just the way it is but i did put V&H slip ons on it cause i just wanted them for the loudness and i changed out the air cleaner from the oval to the round cause the oval burned my leg and decatted the headers so the motor can breathe. so thats my excuse 
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,157
Likes: 565
From: TX
The replacement Screaming Eagle (Harley in-house brand) parts are EPA compliant, too. There's really no technical reason why OE parts could not have been spec'd and made like the SE parts from the get go.
It's not like the Street Cannon's are made of titanium. Stage I air cleaner can be used under stock covers. Cams are cams just ground to a different profile. EFI tune is just 0's and 1's programed into a ROM chip. Thousands of $$$ in parts and labor for 10-15% more power.
With metric bikes, you have to resort to using parts that are designed for "closed course competition only" to make that much more power from stock.
The Harley factory parts are "restricted" by HD so the dealer can sell you less restricted HD parts that are still EPA approved? That seems like a racket.
When you buy a new SUV or truck or Mustang from Ford, they don't sell you thousands of EPA-compliant bolt-on parts to get the engine to make 15% more torque.
I'm not talking about EcoBoost vs 5.0L V8 vs Shelby. Those are significantly different engines platforms in significantly different model trims for significantly different demographics.
It's not like the Street Cannon's are made of titanium. Stage I air cleaner can be used under stock covers. Cams are cams just ground to a different profile. EFI tune is just 0's and 1's programed into a ROM chip. Thousands of $$$ in parts and labor for 10-15% more power.
With metric bikes, you have to resort to using parts that are designed for "closed course competition only" to make that much more power from stock.
The Harley factory parts are "restricted" by HD so the dealer can sell you less restricted HD parts that are still EPA approved? That seems like a racket.
When you buy a new SUV or truck or Mustang from Ford, they don't sell you thousands of EPA-compliant bolt-on parts to get the engine to make 15% more torque.
I'm not talking about EcoBoost vs 5.0L V8 vs Shelby. Those are significantly different engines platforms in significantly different model trims for significantly different demographics.
I guess technically you are right, because this is 1k and doesn't even give 15%
Mustangs are just as big a money pit as harleys. Possibly more so
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 1,281
From: Ky
Could reliability come into play? Since they are warranting the motor for two years there may be some decisions and design more conservative for reliability.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 3,267
From: west Michigan
Did you get a R NineT Pure? I've been looking at those. 50 more HP, same torque as my twin cam 88 (1450cc) and weighs almost 200 pounds less.
I really love the power delivery on my Harley, and I was planning on getting a newer one in the future. Started looking at bikes at the dealership, saw the add ons on the tags, what's offered via Screaming Eagle performance kits, and started to suspect something fishy going on... I can add $4k worth of EPA kosher bolt ons and increase torque by 15%??? Then why isn't it like that from the factory?
I really love the power delivery on my Harley, and I was planning on getting a newer one in the future. Started looking at bikes at the dealership, saw the add ons on the tags, what's offered via Screaming Eagle performance kits, and started to suspect something fishy going on... I can add $4k worth of EPA kosher bolt ons and increase torque by 15%??? Then why isn't it like that from the factory?
