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Does HD intentionally NERF their engines?

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Old May 26, 2020 | 11:36 AM
  #61  
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The answer to "Does HD intentionally nerf their engines?" is "yes, and no." What Harley is selling you as a stock bike it's nerfed in the sense that they're intentionally asking for more money to unlock the bike, but rather that they know it's capable of making more power. The stock trim on these bikes is what is determined to be the best overall compromise between Power, Reliability, and Efficiency within the guidelines set by the various regulating bodies in the markets they choose to sell.

Originally Posted by 8200rpm
The replacement Screaming Eagle (Harley in-house brand) parts are EPA compliant, too. There's really no technical reason why OE parts could not have been spec'd and made like the SE parts from the get go.
Harley - as a manufacturer - will be held responsible for what they sell and allow their customers to ride off the lot with. If the EPA watches you sell a bike from your dealership, install a bunch of parts that are non-street-legal (in the case of DOT) or EPA compliant, and then watches you let that bike ride off the lot onto a public roadway without you attempting to stop that rider, you're going to get into trouble. That's why 99.9% of the HDSE parts are EPA compliant. The fact that they offer their warranty on bikes with those parts installed means that they're still a compromise over a comparative non-oem part.

It's not like the Street Cannon's are made of titanium. Stage I air cleaner can be used under stock covers. Cams are cams just ground to a different profile. EFI tune is just 0's and 1's programmed into a ROM chip. Thousands of $$$ in parts and labor for 10-15% more power.
An intake and exhaust are basic-skills-required mods that almost anyone can do (as a mechanic, I firmly believe that some people should not be working on their own shtuff). Honestly, EFI tunes for most Stage 1 items can be handled by a basic-skills DIY'er, too. If you need to pay labor for these things, don't. That's just a rip-off. Cams do require a deeper understanding of mechanics (or really good reading comprehension skills), so I understand having those handled by a mechanic. Camshafts are also an internal mod that requires (the least invasive form of) opening the engine. Once you open the engine you need to start asking yourself how important reliability (and your warranty) are compared to what you gain. Non-HD parts are going to offer better gains in most circumstances.

With metric bikes, you have to resort to using parts that are designed for "closed course competition only" to make that much more power from stock.

The Harley factory parts are "restricted" by HD so the dealer can sell you less restricted HD parts that are still EPA approved? That seems like a racket.
What metric bikes are we talking about here? Sport bikes? Completely different group. Most of those parts are aimed at tracking the bike. Water-cooled v-twin cruisers? Those bikes are making more power (than their equivalent air-cooled engine) straight away simply due to better heat handling. When you have a higher starting point, it becomes harder to add a given percentage of power. Some mods just don't become as big of a deal anymore. More of these bikes are used for commuting and within cities as well. The aftermarket for "quiet, efficient bike to ride to work on" is virtually non-existent.

When you buy a new SUV or truck or Mustang from Ford, they don't sell you thousands of EPA-compliant bolt-on parts to get the engine to make 15% more torque.

I'm not talking about EcoBoost vs 5.0L V8 vs Shelby. Those are significantly different engines platforms in significantly different model trims for significantly different demographics.
Spend some time looking up Ford Racing Performance Parts, Mopar Performance Parts, and GM Performance Parts. I can buy a FRPP supercharger for my Mustang that's EPA & 50-state compliant and have it installed at the dealer if I so desire. I can also buy intakes, exhausts, suspension components...

Harley isn't intentionally "nerfing the bike to sell you it's designed performance." They're just getting a piece of the aftermarket pie that everyone else was already getting. If you honestly want Harley to put out a much better performing, more reliable bike from the factory, then you want them to get onboard with liquid cooling and OHCs. Quite frankly, they need to if they want to stay competitive in the cruiser market into the future.
 
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Old May 26, 2020 | 11:52 AM
  #62  
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King Nothing
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Originally Posted by AliensilverFXDBI
Harleys aren't race bikes. I can't for the life of me understand why people can't understand that. It's their simple thought process that suggests a motorcycle is automatically associated with racing and performance. If you look at motorcycle sales world wide the performance bikes are a fraction of bikes made for transportation.

The metric touring bikes are better performing bikes too but you rarely see them on forums flapping their beak about how harleys suck, because the metric guys actually ride their ****. Especially BMW fanatics. And BMWs are the epitome of ugly.

 
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Old May 26, 2020 | 03:03 PM
  #63  
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Walter White
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It's the same thing in the Jeep Wrangler world. Folks pay $50k for a top of the line world class off roading machine from the factory. No other manufacturer can touch it in performance. Then they immediately pay $10k+ for a lift, new tires & bumpers to make it "better". All this just to commute to work.

It's their money, they can do what they want even if I think it's a waste. That money supports quite a few families that make the parts and work at the dealer.

Even Ford tries the ol' up sell at service time. I just turned down "recommended" every 20k mile fuel injection service at the Ford dealership. I said had I known that Ford made such poorly designed fuel injection systems, I wouldn't have bought the Expedition. If they persist I ask them to show me where Ford requires this in the owner's manual. They can't because it's not recommended by the factory. Then I ask, if I don't do this service will Ford void my factory warranty? I usually get a stammering no for an answer. I'm only using the dealer for service because their works oil change & tire rotation service is cheap enough for me not to do it, it'll be shown on the car fax that Ford did all the oil changes plus if I use the extended warranty for a problem, I can say Ford did all the service, how didn't you catch this issue? Just fix it.

I've purchased 3 Harleys, 2 of them new. Both the dealerships salesmen had pen in hand ready to write down my exhaust and stage upgrade. When I said I'll keep it stock, you'd of thought I pissed in their cornflakes and got the are you crazy look. I explained to both that I wouldn't buy this motorcycle for this price had I thought it couldn't perform stock.

It's not just Harley and it's worth it to some folks. Just not you & me.


 
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