MOCO targeting the wealthy
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 16,271
Likes: 15,108
From: Somewhere SW
1) America has lost its love for the internal combustion engine
2) they missed the opportunity to capture market share of the current 30 to 50 year old males years ago, they would have to have a time machine to go back and find a way to get their attention. GM used to have a strategy that you started in a Chevy in your youth and ended up in a Caddy when you were old. HD has no "chevy" in their product line that would catch the attention of the few people under 35 that are interested in Motorcycles. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki (among others) got them hooked. Those potential buyers are not going to spend 2X the money for 1/2 the bike. IMHO when HD killed Buell off, they lost any chance to break into the youth market.
3) Fuel costs, fuel taxes, and congestion taxes for roads in urban areas keep Europeans on Motorcycles. HD has terrible support in the EU, if you think Canada is hard to get bike parts, try the EU, in the mean time BMW Motorcycle parts are easy to get.
4) the cheap money, home equity loans, and other financial tricks that fueled the events of 20 yearsago are not going to happen again, if the MoCO thinks the R.U.B. is going to save their bacon a second time they are nuts, especially without the Indian Larry's, Jesse Jameses', the clowns from Newburgh NY, Billy Lane and the rest who fueled the MoCo's rise the last time.
The MoCo is in a death spiral, sooner or later economic realities and consumer preferences are going to be the end of the MoCo once and for all, and probably in my lifetime
2) they missed the opportunity to capture market share of the current 30 to 50 year old males years ago, they would have to have a time machine to go back and find a way to get their attention. GM used to have a strategy that you started in a Chevy in your youth and ended up in a Caddy when you were old. HD has no "chevy" in their product line that would catch the attention of the few people under 35 that are interested in Motorcycles. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki (among others) got them hooked. Those potential buyers are not going to spend 2X the money for 1/2 the bike. IMHO when HD killed Buell off, they lost any chance to break into the youth market.
3) Fuel costs, fuel taxes, and congestion taxes for roads in urban areas keep Europeans on Motorcycles. HD has terrible support in the EU, if you think Canada is hard to get bike parts, try the EU, in the mean time BMW Motorcycle parts are easy to get.
4) the cheap money, home equity loans, and other financial tricks that fueled the events of 20 yearsago are not going to happen again, if the MoCO thinks the R.U.B. is going to save their bacon a second time they are nuts, especially without the Indian Larry's, Jesse Jameses', the clowns from Newburgh NY, Billy Lane and the rest who fueled the MoCo's rise the last time.
The MoCo is in a death spiral, sooner or later economic realities and consumer preferences are going to be the end of the MoCo once and for all, and probably in my lifetime
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons new
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
Last edited by JustDave13; Aug 20, 2020 at 09:44 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,126
Likes: 51,454
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
Should have heard the crap people talked about HD in the 70's but by the early 90's they couldn't build them fast enough to meet demand. Every goes in cycles, problem is the bastards in control want to bring that 90's feeding frenzy and have no clue how to go about doing it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 3,267
From: west Michigan
Before the Evo years, Harleys were a blue collar working man's bike. With the advent of the Evo, Harleys became reliable, respectable and fashionable. Enter the RUB. Nowadays, working man's wages won't buy a new Harley, a house, car, and groceries; most of the good manufacturing jobs have gone to Mexico or overseas. The RUBs and lots of other Harley riders are ageing out of the sport and lifestyle. Some of us are buying lighter bikes that out perform Harley Davidsons and cost half as much.
What Harley is doing by killing the Bronx, is exactly what they were doing when they killed the Buell brand. The CEO then said that they wanted to stick with their "core product". IMO, small and mid sized bikes are where the future of motorcycling is. I'm not normally one of the doom and gloom guys but I'm not encouraged by what I'm seeing at the MoCo.
What Harley is doing by killing the Bronx, is exactly what they were doing when they killed the Buell brand. The CEO then said that they wanted to stick with their "core product". IMO, small and mid sized bikes are where the future of motorcycling is. I'm not normally one of the doom and gloom guys but I'm not encouraged by what I'm seeing at the MoCo.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 978
Likes: 423
From: UK
I disagree.
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons newtarget neglected market?
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons new
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
I agree with your comment about the appeal outside being US history and culture. At the moment that is a bit unattractive. I know it won't go down well, but much of the world rolls there eyes and laughs when you mention Trump. He's toxic to 'Americana' and sentiment towards the US, outside the US. For the record, I've always been pro-US, my post-grad education was in the US and I'm not a liberal or leftist commie ***.
Last edited by Mart; Aug 21, 2020 at 02:08 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,842
Likes: 16,583
From: Wisconsin, USA
Lot of sense in your post. Problem is, the rest of the world is 1/2 Harley's sales and the 'patriot' stuff scares us off. Lots of overseas markets are growing faster than the US.
I agree with your comment about the appeal outside being US history and culture. At the moment that is a bit unattractive. I know it won't go down well, but much of the world rolls there eyes and laughs when you mention Trump. He's toxic to 'Americana' and sentiment towards the US, outside the US. For the record, I've always been pro-US, my post-grad education was in the US and I'm not a liberal or leftist commie ***.
I agree with your comment about the appeal outside being US history and culture. At the moment that is a bit unattractive. I know it won't go down well, but much of the world rolls there eyes and laughs when you mention Trump. He's toxic to 'Americana' and sentiment towards the US, outside the US. For the record, I've always been pro-US, my post-grad education was in the US and I'm not a liberal or leftist commie ***.
You must be out of touch with modern America. A man just lost his job for saying ***.
https://sports.yahoo.com/what-is-tho...144316999.html
Trump is not a homophobic racist buffoon, like the leftists paint him. He was popular with Hollywood until he became conservative when he saw how leftist Democrats were becoming. Modern America destroys anyone who isnt politically correct. And Harley should not be trying to please the rest of the world by disrespecting its patriotic base.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
in real dollars, today's harley is actually cheaper than it was back in the 70s and 80s. a bike that cost $3700 in 1970 would be over $24,000 today.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,801
Likes: 2,328
From: WI
I disagree.
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons newtarget neglected market?
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons new
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
One market I assume Harley gets a lot of pull from would be the "family" buyer. People like myself that are looking for bikes, are nostalgic over the bikes our parents rode, our uncles/aunts, grandparents, etc... When it came time for me to plop down a large chunk of money on my first "nice" bike, the tipping point that led me to my SG over the Chieftain was simple; my family has always ridden Harleys, and I wanted to continue that tradition.
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Tourer
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 486
Likes: 301
From: Kentucky
I would say the Street 500/750 models come to mind at first thought.