MOCO targeting the wealthy
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 594
From: Alabama
1) America has lost its love for the internal combustion engine
2) they missed the opportunity to capture market share of the current 30 to 50 year old males years ago, they would have to have a time machine to go back and find a way to get their attention. GM used to have a strategy that you started in a Chevy in your youth and ended up in a Caddy when you were old. HD has no "chevy" in their product line that would catch the attention of the few people under 35 that are interested in Motorcycles. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki (among others) got them hooked. Those potential buyers are not going to spend 2X the money for 1/2 the bike. IMHO when HD killed Buell off, they lost any chance to break into the youth market.
3) Fuel costs, fuel taxes, and congestion taxes for roads in urban areas keep Europeans on Motorcycles. HD has terrible support in the EU, if you think Canada is hard to get bike parts, try the EU, in the mean time BMW Motorcycle parts are easy to get.
4) the cheap money, home equity loans, and other financial tricks that fueled the events of 20 yearsago are not going to happen again, if the MoCO thinks the R.U.B. is going to save their bacon a second time they are nuts, especially without the Indian Larry's, Jesse Jameses', the clowns from Newburgh NY, Billy Lane and the rest who fueled the MoCo's rise the last time.
The MoCo is in a death spiral, sooner or later economic realities and consumer preferences are going to be the end of the MoCo once and for all, and probably in my lifetime
2) they missed the opportunity to capture market share of the current 30 to 50 year old males years ago, they would have to have a time machine to go back and find a way to get their attention. GM used to have a strategy that you started in a Chevy in your youth and ended up in a Caddy when you were old. HD has no "chevy" in their product line that would catch the attention of the few people under 35 that are interested in Motorcycles. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki (among others) got them hooked. Those potential buyers are not going to spend 2X the money for 1/2 the bike. IMHO when HD killed Buell off, they lost any chance to break into the youth market.
3) Fuel costs, fuel taxes, and congestion taxes for roads in urban areas keep Europeans on Motorcycles. HD has terrible support in the EU, if you think Canada is hard to get bike parts, try the EU, in the mean time BMW Motorcycle parts are easy to get.
4) the cheap money, home equity loans, and other financial tricks that fueled the events of 20 yearsago are not going to happen again, if the MoCO thinks the R.U.B. is going to save their bacon a second time they are nuts, especially without the Indian Larry's, Jesse Jameses', the clowns from Newburgh NY, Billy Lane and the rest who fueled the MoCo's rise the last time.
The MoCo is in a death spiral, sooner or later economic realities and consumer preferences are going to be the end of the MoCo once and for all, and probably in my lifetime
Electrics are not prolific enough. Yes, I know about Tesla. Where are all the charging stations? How long to charge? Feh. I am not buying any electric crap.
I flew electric RC aircraft. Different concept. It is a toy.
Not saying HD will sell as many big bikes. The entire bike business has been slow because this country has brainwashed the younger folks into stupidity and incompetence. Most cannot even ride a bicycle, let alone a motorcycle.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,023
Likes: 1,352
From: Virginia
I disagree.
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons newtarget neglected market?
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
Harley's problem is ignoring their market while trying to please the "we are the world" and "mom jeans" crowd. If you don't believe me just take a look at the pics on the moco website.
Go on I'll wait here
Did you notice that the people who are "modeling the bikes" are hipsters wearing Buddy Holly glasses?
We called those birth control glasses when I was in the Marine Corps and for good reason. No chick would want anything to do with anyone wearing that crap.
However they seem to be the rage among the wimp crowd these days and Harley Davidson is catering to this "market".
(BTW those types of glasses aren't good eye protection for motorcycle riding.)
This is not Harley Davidson's market... No, not at all, those types of people drive Subarus, they wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle let alone a Harley.
Harley Davidson's market is Americana.
Americana is buying a piece of and/or being part of USA history and culture (this can be marketed worldwide)
The selling points? Rumbling, roaring freedom on the open road. (This will never change)
Harley Davidsons new
Patriots: People who are proud of their country and buy American no matter what.
Active duty military: They have the cash and the passion to buy a Freedom Machine. I put 50% down on my bike back in 88 and I'm not the only warrior to do that... this is a huge market.
USA veterans are a strong market as well, we never give up on our country or fellow American
I'm under the impression that HD has been ignoring these groups as evidenced by their drop in sales.
HD needs to cater to their customers and stop focusing on fearful Buddy Holly glasses, mom jean wearing pansies.
Every true red blooded American risk taker wants ride an American rumbling roaring freedom machine. Harley needs to focus on them and cater to them.
That's HD's market
.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 638
From: Up North
They're going in the only direction they can. They can't compete on price, so they have to build expensive and sell expensive or die. They can start by putting chrome and polished metal back on the bikes instead of that **** flat black from some cheap Jap off-road bike.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 293
Likes: 179
From: Paducah
Disagree.
Electrics are not prolific enough. Yes, I know about Tesla. Where are all the charging stations? How long to charge? Feh. I am not buying any electric crap.
I flew electric RC aircraft. Different concept. It is a toy.
Not saying HD will sell as many big bikes. The entire bike business has been slow because this country has brainwashed the younger folks into stupidity and incompetence. Most cannot even ride a bicycle, let alone a motorcycle.
Electrics are not prolific enough. Yes, I know about Tesla. Where are all the charging stations? How long to charge? Feh. I am not buying any electric crap.
I flew electric RC aircraft. Different concept. It is a toy.
Not saying HD will sell as many big bikes. The entire bike business has been slow because this country has brainwashed the younger folks into stupidity and incompetence. Most cannot even ride a bicycle, let alone a motorcycle.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44,906
Likes: 29,886
From: PNW
Shows how out of touch Bishop is with the motorcycle scene and HD history. Page 1 of this thread is filled with sound reasons his logic is flawed. The simple fact that HD experienced a perfect storm of wannabee bad boys with tons of disposable income in the 90s and early 2000s, creating a massive bubble, seems to be lost on Impala. Harley Davidson was the Hula Hoop of the 90s. It's over. Now all that's left is people who actually ride. Time to appeal to those folks.
Oh yeah.....and comparing world sales of other manufacturers to HD sales here is absurd. One need spend only 5 minutes on Facebook or any motorcycle forum to understand that there are two kinds of motorcycles - Harley Davidson and the others. Sales of one will not reflect sales of the other.
Oh yeah.....and comparing world sales of other manufacturers to HD sales here is absurd. One need spend only 5 minutes on Facebook or any motorcycle forum to understand that there are two kinds of motorcycles - Harley Davidson and the others. Sales of one will not reflect sales of the other.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 28,842
Likes: 16,583
From: Wisconsin, USA
This is one major reason H-D is in a death spiral...Harley And its customers unwilling to see beyond their own biases and continually belittling would be customers, especially young ones. Good luck trying to sell like Ferrari when the actual persona and image is trashy.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2020-ha...vewire-review/
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 25,057
Likes: 19,457
From: New York
Back in the 90's, the Indy biker builder(like West Coast Choppers, Orange County Choppers, etc) were targeting the wealthy with their one of a kind custom choppers for around $60K and up.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 594
From: Alabama
One thing for certain. HD is struggling as it is with sales down and trying to regroup. However, it has some QC problems and engineering issues which can be noted in the M8 threads. These are not imaginary problems.
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 749
Likes: 287
From: Detroit area
only problem is your company dies when they do.
Road Master
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 188
From: West Chester, Ohio
They're going in the only direction they can. They can't compete on price, so they have to build expensive and sell expensive or die. They can start by putting chrome and polished metal back on the bikes instead of that **** flat black from some cheap Jap off-road bike.
I agree, I hate the flat black and the fake looking spray painted metal instead of chrome on the new one looks cheap. Guy at the dealer told me that producing chrome is causing serious ozone issues which is why they aren't putting as much on the bikes. I am ready for a new bike, but I won't be buying anything until they add chrome and good paint schemes like the 2017 and older, At 42 I feel like they should be looking hard at my age group, I have a ton of years left to ride and money to ride whatever brand I choose.
Just ordered some new bars and a few other upgrades since I am planning on keeping my bike at least 2 more years with the hope that they get their heads out of their *** and produce something with some eye appeal.
