Hit it or Lay it Down??
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 65
Likes: 36
From: Jacksonville, Florida
If you have time to intentionally lay a bike down, you have enough time to brake.
Years ago I read a great article where a rider asked the question In an accident evasion is it better to swerve or brake?. The instructor said it depends on the situation but situational awareness trumps both.
Years ago I read a great article where a rider asked the question In an accident evasion is it better to swerve or brake?. The instructor said it depends on the situation but situational awareness trumps both.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,488
Likes: 4,776
If you have time to intentionally lay a bike down, you have enough time to brake.
Years ago I read a great article where a rider asked the question In an accident evasion is it better to swerve or brake?. The instructor said it depends on the situation but situational awareness trumps both.
Years ago I read a great article where a rider asked the question In an accident evasion is it better to swerve or brake?. The instructor said it depends on the situation but situational awareness trumps both.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,286
Likes: 3,429
From: Idaho Panhandle
This is just what I believe and laying it down is not always the best thing. In my case I felt it was the only option and only had enough time to do it and get off the bike before the car ran it over. Thank god I spend a lot of time on dirt bikes in my younger years and knew how to do it. I really have no idea what all happen as I only remember jumping and then felt a hard hit. When I woke up 10 days later in the intensive care unit at the hospital I could not remember much about it all. The cops came for an interview when they let me out of intensive care and one of them happened to be a bike CHP. He said what I remembered fit the accident site as there was only 30 feet from the corner I came around to where the cars were. When I asked who did I hit he said it wasn't my fault and stated that I was damn lucky to be alive. He said that when he was given the case and saw the photo's with the bike completely under the car and about half way back he knew the rider was dead. He thought the rider had gone under with the bike or off the cliff until he read the whole thing. The cars behind the first two saw the whole deal and were able to stop before I came tumbling off the back of the car he said. They gave the officers the speed they saw the cars traveling at and that one was clearly completely in my lane. Took a period of 9 months before I was back to walking, sort of. Another year before I even felt like getting back on a bike again. Now I just try and forget it best I can, but I can assure you if it happened the same way again I would be trying to lay it down again, but not so sure I could react quick enough anymore.
It's your memory, your story so I don't doubt it. I just believe you only had that one outcome and there might have been a better one. I do agree, most riders repeat mistakes as well as good responses. Only you know if it could have been different, maybe not. Maybe it was fate.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,982
Likes: 5,220
From: Michigan
I have a friend who is a retired county Deputy Sheriff and back when he was a younge man had decided that he wanted to be a Motor Officer.
As part of their training "back in the day" was to "lay the bike" down and ride it to a stop!
Needless to say, when he attempted to do this. the bike "high-sided" him and he was off work for several weeks and did not resume motor officer training!
As part of their training "back in the day" was to "lay the bike" down and ride it to a stop!
Needless to say, when he attempted to do this. the bike "high-sided" him and he was off work for several weeks and did not resume motor officer training!
Last edited by 2AMGuy; Dec 22, 2020 at 10:53 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 655
Likes: 759
From: Coconino County AZ
Yes, the quickest way to stop is with the bike upright and applying maximum brake torque to both tires to the extent that there is traction to keep them from locking. But that stop and swerve technique you were taught in the riding school you attended does not work in every situation.
I haven’t intentionally laid a bike down from upright since I was a kid on a dirt bike horsing around with my buddies. But I have laid them over in a slide and held them there to intentionally ride out the slide rather than risk a high-side. In a tight turn and you lose rear wheel traction, either by rolling on the throttle too aggressively causing the tire to spin; or too hard on the rear brake entering the corner and the wheel locks up. You lift the throttle or brake in each respective situation and risk a high-side as rear tire traction instantly recovers and tosses the bike upright and you over the high-side.
Hold the throttle position and it will either recover or unload you on the low-side which is much safer than a high-side and much less damage to the bike. Same with the brake, hold it and counter steer until the bike is more upright then release the rear brake. If the rear washes out and you never recover, you unload on the low-side. Both these may look like you intentionally laid the bike down and some may refer to it as such but you are attempting to either recover or if unrecoverable, prevent a worse crash.
I’d much rather slide than be thrown into the air and tumble like a rag doll. I’ve done both enough to know which hurts worse. Low-side and the bike slides away from you, high-side and the bike will chase you.
I haven’t intentionally laid a bike down from upright since I was a kid on a dirt bike horsing around with my buddies. But I have laid them over in a slide and held them there to intentionally ride out the slide rather than risk a high-side. In a tight turn and you lose rear wheel traction, either by rolling on the throttle too aggressively causing the tire to spin; or too hard on the rear brake entering the corner and the wheel locks up. You lift the throttle or brake in each respective situation and risk a high-side as rear tire traction instantly recovers and tosses the bike upright and you over the high-side.
Hold the throttle position and it will either recover or unload you on the low-side which is much safer than a high-side and much less damage to the bike. Same with the brake, hold it and counter steer until the bike is more upright then release the rear brake. If the rear washes out and you never recover, you unload on the low-side. Both these may look like you intentionally laid the bike down and some may refer to it as such but you are attempting to either recover or if unrecoverable, prevent a worse crash.
I’d much rather slide than be thrown into the air and tumble like a rag doll. I’ve done both enough to know which hurts worse. Low-side and the bike slides away from you, high-side and the bike will chase you.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 52
Likes: 75
From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
I've been riding street for about 20yrs, road dirt as a kid before that and I've always read and been taught that rubber has more traction and stopping power than metal or plastic. Makes perfect sense to me. I understand that way back when brakes were not as powerful as they are on modern bikes, it was taught that laying the bike down was a viable alternative to an emergency stop to avoid a head on crash. To me, putting the bike on the ground is a crash. I even remember my dad telling me a story about doing just that to avoid a car that jumped out in front of him once in the 70's, he earned some road rash but lived to tell the story (and produce me later on, for better or worse).
I've had one low side, which not intentional, due to my over-confident self taking a corner a bit too hot and some gravel on the road. Lesson learned. Anyway, I would never think of laying it down
I've had one low side, which not intentional, due to my over-confident self taking a corner a bit too hot and some gravel on the road. Lesson learned. Anyway, I would never think of laying it down
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 934
Likes: 677
From: Ohio
If you have time to intentionally lay a bike down, you have enough time to brake.
Years ago I read a great article where a rider asked the question In an accident evasion is it better to swerve or brake?. The instructor said it depends on the situation but situational awareness trumps both.
Years ago I read a great article where a rider asked the question In an accident evasion is it better to swerve or brake?. The instructor said it depends on the situation but situational awareness trumps both.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 421
From: Northern, Ohio (Yuck!)
This is another case where "laying it down" would have been the wrong answer...
July 2, 2010
Well my cherry is now officially popped!
Over 20 years on 2 wheels and I just had my first real accident...
Heading west on Route 6 west of Vermillion, 2 lane road, 55 mph zone.
Cruising along solo, in the left side of the lane about 6 car lengths behind a small SUV, 7:30 pm, absolutely gorgeous evening. Oh ****, the SUV has stopped! Car going by on left. Hard on the front brake, hard on the rear brake, grab the clutch. The rear end starts skidding to the right, ease off the rear brake harder on the front brake. ****, not gonna be enough, harder on the rear brake, rear end starts to skid to the right again. the back bumper of the SUV looms up, I realize I am not gonna get stopped in time. Quick look, no oncoming traffic, ease off both brakes to get control and dive left. Gonna be close! Suck my right foot in tight. I am gonna make it! THUNK! Entire bike jumps 6 inches to the left. I stay upright. Going past SUV and car turning left, pull onto shoulder, no rear brakes. I step off bike. Lady in SUV asks if I am alright. Amazingly enough I don't have a scratch! Only damage to bike is right side of crash bar is bent back about 4 inches, pushing up foot rest and blocking my EZ brake from moving. Nothing else touched on the bike... We can't find a mark on the SUV, I likely clipped the front edge of the rear wheel well.
She says if I am OK and don't need the cops then she is fine too...
After I stop shaking I drove home very slowly. (No rear brakes and way too much adrenalin!) I will ask my wifes Uncle who owns a body shop to take a look at the crash bar tommorrow...
Wow...
July 2, 2010
Well my cherry is now officially popped!
Over 20 years on 2 wheels and I just had my first real accident...
Heading west on Route 6 west of Vermillion, 2 lane road, 55 mph zone.
Cruising along solo, in the left side of the lane about 6 car lengths behind a small SUV, 7:30 pm, absolutely gorgeous evening. Oh ****, the SUV has stopped! Car going by on left. Hard on the front brake, hard on the rear brake, grab the clutch. The rear end starts skidding to the right, ease off the rear brake harder on the front brake. ****, not gonna be enough, harder on the rear brake, rear end starts to skid to the right again. the back bumper of the SUV looms up, I realize I am not gonna get stopped in time. Quick look, no oncoming traffic, ease off both brakes to get control and dive left. Gonna be close! Suck my right foot in tight. I am gonna make it! THUNK! Entire bike jumps 6 inches to the left. I stay upright. Going past SUV and car turning left, pull onto shoulder, no rear brakes. I step off bike. Lady in SUV asks if I am alright. Amazingly enough I don't have a scratch! Only damage to bike is right side of crash bar is bent back about 4 inches, pushing up foot rest and blocking my EZ brake from moving. Nothing else touched on the bike... We can't find a mark on the SUV, I likely clipped the front edge of the rear wheel well.
She says if I am OK and don't need the cops then she is fine too...
After I stop shaking I drove home very slowly. (No rear brakes and way too much adrenalin!) I will ask my wifes Uncle who owns a body shop to take a look at the crash bar tommorrow...
Wow...
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Road Captain
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From: Durango CO