Hit it or Lay it Down??
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,488
Likes: 4,774
I'm not saying you are incorrect, but your analysis is flawed. You have no idea what would have happened in you emergency braked and lost 30 or more mph before impact. Your motorcycle was under the other vehicle because you laid it down. You have no idea how much you might have mitigated your injuries had you lost as much speed as possible and remained above the vehicle. You quote the officers, but I doubt if they would have laid it down.
It's your memory, your story so I don't doubt it. I just believe you only had that one outcome and there might have been a better one. I do agree, most riders repeat mistakes as well as good responses. Only you know if it could have been different, maybe not. Maybe it was fate.
It's your memory, your story so I don't doubt it. I just believe you only had that one outcome and there might have been a better one. I do agree, most riders repeat mistakes as well as good responses. Only you know if it could have been different, maybe not. Maybe it was fate.
I'm hear to talk about it, so it wasn't the worst option but I can tell you I never want to have to make that decision again!
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,488
Likes: 4,774
You didn't have time to brake but had time to "lay it down"?
LEARN how to f-ing brake! I doesn't matter how many years of riding experience one have, proper braking is the most important skill rider can learn.
In my opinion and 40+ years of riding and racing, 90% of riders do not know how to properly brake and what it takes to "lock up" the brakes. This percentage is higher for cruiser types because many riders are afraid of using the front brakes.
With linked braking systems and ABS there is absolutely no reason to be afraid! Squeeze that level!
Laying it down is an excuse and never acceptable! It is the biggest myth!
LEARN how to f-ing brake! I doesn't matter how many years of riding experience one have, proper braking is the most important skill rider can learn.
In my opinion and 40+ years of riding and racing, 90% of riders do not know how to properly brake and what it takes to "lock up" the brakes. This percentage is higher for cruiser types because many riders are afraid of using the front brakes.
With linked braking systems and ABS there is absolutely no reason to be afraid! Squeeze that level!
Laying it down is an excuse and never acceptable! It is the biggest myth!
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 613
From: IE, CA
You can be pretty much assured most here in a true oh **** emergency situation wouldnt react either way knowingly... They'd freeze and hit it and if they did lay it down itd be from poor braking and putting it down (of course the story is, I had to lay it down)
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10,036
Likes: 10,767
From: SE Michigan
look... Ill install brake pads on my tank and bags when you make the streets out of rotor material
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 578
Likes: 522
From: Durango CO
For that reason each of us should know if someone pulls out in front of you NEVER ever ever, under any circumstances whatsoever should you ever think of laying it down. NEVER! I am NOT saying it's never advantageous to lay it down. I am saying it is so rare that you should never say "in the last few milliseconds before a crash I will analyse the situation and decide if it's best to lay it down" NO NO NO! Prepare to do what is best 999 times out of 1000. Trust your brakes and steering.
Also practice these emergency manoeuvres. Even if you have ABS practice emergency braking. Once a week or at least once a month check to make sure no one is behind you and slam on the brakes. That will take time to be good at it. The first few times be very careful. Later you can brake as if your life depends on it. With practice you can stop better than ABS. At first let your ABS kick in. Pay attention. Is ABS kicking in for the front AND the rear? Even with ABS I think a lot of people won't stop as fast as the motorcycle is capable.
Last edited by Durango Dave; Dec 24, 2020 at 07:51 AM.
i have never "layed" a bike down at any speed had the rear tire kick out from under me came in a little to hot in a turn that had a painted crosswalk. thought it was a smart idea to take the brand new dirt bike out for a test ride in the snow in a tee shirt went down around 25mph slid on ice. i can tell you ice burn is real.
i got tboned by a car doing about the same, i was sitting i traffic all i still remember screeching tires and the split second i had all i could do was pick my left leg up, and that was completely a reflex.
i got tboned by a car doing about the same, i was sitting i traffic all i still remember screeching tires and the split second i had all i could do was pick my left leg up, and that was completely a reflex.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 11,630
Likes: 990
From: NC
I've posted this before so I won't do it all again........
......several years ago, wifey and I were on an '08 Heritage Classic.
NO ABS, just my skills to guard us.
Was I going too fast thru an intersection; sure was.
Should the third vehicle have stopped at the stop sign; should have.
I was trying to avoid his truck bed and NOT lock my rear wheel.
Pulling the front brake as hard as possible and feathering the rear, I
missed him by inches............
Then, at that time, the rearend started flipping back and forth. I'm out of one
problem into another.
I got my wits about me and let off the rear brake when the rearend was straight.
On down the road we went.
Was it ever close!!
Did I EVER think of laying the bike down to avoid hitting the truck; NEVER!!
I was confident in my skills and avoided injury to me, wifey and bike.
As riders, are we going to be able to avoid every situation? Never.
Do we ride defensively? Yes.
I can't say that each situation is the same because it isn't.
We should have a plan to expect the unexpected................
......several years ago, wifey and I were on an '08 Heritage Classic.
NO ABS, just my skills to guard us.
Was I going too fast thru an intersection; sure was.
Should the third vehicle have stopped at the stop sign; should have.
I was trying to avoid his truck bed and NOT lock my rear wheel.
Pulling the front brake as hard as possible and feathering the rear, I
missed him by inches............
Then, at that time, the rearend started flipping back and forth. I'm out of one
problem into another.
I got my wits about me and let off the rear brake when the rearend was straight.
On down the road we went.
Was it ever close!!
Did I EVER think of laying the bike down to avoid hitting the truck; NEVER!!
I was confident in my skills and avoided injury to me, wifey and bike.
As riders, are we going to be able to avoid every situation? Never.
Do we ride defensively? Yes.
I can't say that each situation is the same because it isn't.
We should have a plan to expect the unexpected................
Last edited by not a sock; Dec 24, 2020 at 03:44 PM.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,530
Likes: 607
From: Raleigh NC
I've yet to have anyone show me (with evidence) that hard braking does not lower the impact speed, and sliding out of control somehow does.
And yes.... I've heard of Motor Officers, and Military training, where riders are taught to "lay the bike down"...
It is MY understanding, such action, is less "safely stopping" a motorcycle, and more about using the motorcycle as a shield.... not that I'd feel particularly safe, using the fuel tank to stop incoming rounds
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 4,126
Likes: 2,117
From: W. MI.
I get what you are saying. I started on BSAs and Triumphs in the late 60s early 70s. Stopping wasn't the high point for either. I was a bunch younger then and bullet proof. So saying I rode "smart", well you know. In time we all should learn (?) to ride smarter. But we can't avoid someone else's stupid.