Harley bashing
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: sfarson
skater... You've revealed yourself to be biased, and it shows in your uninformed post.
Rides worse? I'm trying to remember the last review where H-D didn't outhandle the ponderous and bloated metric competition. Reviewers can't stand the barge like size of these metrics like the Vulcan. H-D Fatboy was just named Cycle World's Cruiser of the Year.
Sounds wimpier? If you think the harsh blatty note of metrics is finer, you're in very, very small company.
No *****? You don't understand cruising. What's far more important is how a cruiser delivers the experience below 100mph, not how much faster than 120mph it can go. If anyone is taking a bike above 100mph on public roads with traffic, they're stupid. Oh sure, I could do that on my Duc or MV, but it is best for the track.
$20K? You've broadstroked (Never impressive) all H-D's into this price bracket. Most aren't there. Good friend of mine just bought a Dyna Super Glide Custom for $14K. He could have bought a $13K VTX, or one of the pricier touring metrics.
Help me for a second... How many metric cruisers have six speeds? Or offer ABS in '08? What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?Or the customization options of H-D? Do you even know what matters to the cruising segment of motorcycling? Well, we already know the answer to the last question.
If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it. You've dug yourself a hole and didn't score any points at all.
skater... You've revealed yourself to be biased, and it shows in your uninformed post.
Rides worse? I'm trying to remember the last review where H-D didn't outhandle the ponderous and bloated metric competition. Reviewers can't stand the barge like size of these metrics like the Vulcan. H-D Fatboy was just named Cycle World's Cruiser of the Year.
Sounds wimpier? If you think the harsh blatty note of metrics is finer, you're in very, very small company.
No *****? You don't understand cruising. What's far more important is how a cruiser delivers the experience below 100mph, not how much faster than 120mph it can go. If anyone is taking a bike above 100mph on public roads with traffic, they're stupid. Oh sure, I could do that on my Duc or MV, but it is best for the track.
$20K? You've broadstroked (Never impressive) all H-D's into this price bracket. Most aren't there. Good friend of mine just bought a Dyna Super Glide Custom for $14K. He could have bought a $13K VTX, or one of the pricier touring metrics.
Help me for a second... How many metric cruisers have six speeds? Or offer ABS in '08? What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?Or the customization options of H-D? Do you even know what matters to the cruising segment of motorcycling? Well, we already know the answer to the last question.
If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it. You've dug yourself a hole and didn't score any points at all.
I've ridden my friends Harley. It's a great bike, he enjoys it very much and I really liked riding it, but my barge as you call it will destroy the Fatboy in every single performance category. It's faster (not even close), stops bettter (again, not even close), corners better (more clearance on the H-D, but the Vulcan is more stable) and gets better gas mileage too. Did I mention that I paid $6000 dollars less than he did and his was used.
Now I would never say any of that to my friend because I respect him and his choice of ride. I will not let you off the hook though. You made some pretty blatant generalizations and I'm calling you on it. This isn't a my bikes better than your bike post. It's a you don't bash my bike and I won't bash yours post. Deal?
Edit: BTW, I'm not defending the other dude. He dug his own hole. I'm just defending my bike.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 1
From: Rockies
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: skater69
Have you ever ridden a Roadliner or V2K? They'll outhandle any Harley in its price range....and I'm not talking about going over 100mph.....I'm talking power pullingat ANY rpm. The HDs don't have it. I've rented tons of Harleys......every touring bike they make. They were ok....nothing more...then I rode a V2K, a Roadliner and a Nomad.....all 5speeds.....and NO COMPARISON.....all 3 made the StreetGlide, Electra Glide, and FXD I rode feel like archaeic jokes......which in essence they are. Have you heard a piped V2K? Makes a Harley sound like a tricycle. And you're comparing a $14K SuperGlide Custom to a $13K VTX 1800...? That's like comparing John Holmes to amidget....LOL
ORIGINAL: sfarson
skater... You've revealed yourself to be biased, and it shows in your uninformed post.
Rides worse? I'm trying to remember the last review where H-D didn't outhandle the ponderous and bloated metric competition. Reviewers can't stand the barge like size of these metrics like the Vulcan. H-D Fatboy was just named Cycle World's Cruiser of the Year.
Sounds wimpier? If you think the harsh blatty note of metrics is finer, you're in very, very small company.
No *****? You don't understand cruising. What's far more important is how a cruiser delivers the experience below 100mph, not how much faster than 120mph it can go. If anyone is taking a bike above 100mph on public roads with traffic, they're stupid. Oh sure, I could do that on my Duc or MV, but it is best for the track.
$20K? You've broadstroked (Never impressive) all H-D's into this price bracket. Most aren't there. Good friend of mine just bought a Dyna Super Glide Custom for $14K. He could have bought a $13K VTX, or one of the pricier touring metrics.
Help me for a second... How many metric cruisers have six speeds? Or offer ABS in '08? What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?Or the customization options of H-D? Do you even know what matters to the cruising segment of motorcycling? Well, we already know the answer to the last question.
If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it. You've dug yourself a hole and didn't score any points at all.
skater... You've revealed yourself to be biased, and it shows in your uninformed post.
Rides worse? I'm trying to remember the last review where H-D didn't outhandle the ponderous and bloated metric competition. Reviewers can't stand the barge like size of these metrics like the Vulcan. H-D Fatboy was just named Cycle World's Cruiser of the Year.
Sounds wimpier? If you think the harsh blatty note of metrics is finer, you're in very, very small company.
No *****? You don't understand cruising. What's far more important is how a cruiser delivers the experience below 100mph, not how much faster than 120mph it can go. If anyone is taking a bike above 100mph on public roads with traffic, they're stupid. Oh sure, I could do that on my Duc or MV, but it is best for the track.
$20K? You've broadstroked (Never impressive) all H-D's into this price bracket. Most aren't there. Good friend of mine just bought a Dyna Super Glide Custom for $14K. He could have bought a $13K VTX, or one of the pricier touring metrics.
Help me for a second... How many metric cruisers have six speeds? Or offer ABS in '08? What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?Or the customization options of H-D? Do you even know what matters to the cruising segment of motorcycling? Well, we already know the answer to the last question.
If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it. You've dug yourself a hole and didn't score any points at all.
You remind me of H-D riders who look down on "Jap Crap", or BMW riders who can't stand H-D, or Asian liter bike riders who can't fathom why anyone would buy a $17K Ducati versus $10K Japan Inc. bike, or KTM Adventure riders who who think BMW GS riders are clueless, or the Busa rider wondering why would anyone ride 170mph XX Blackbird versus a 180mph Busa. Sheeesh. You can live in the mire of riders believing their subjective opinions are fact or you can rise above it and offer cogent and thoughtful posts with value.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 1
From: Rockies
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: V2K
You've got some of your own bias showing too. Ever ride a Vulcan 2000? I own one and my best friend rides a Fatboy. Except for displacement and price they are identical motorcycles. Both are V-Twins, belt drive, 5 speeds, EFI, and both have bags and windsheilds. They are even the same color. The only mechanical difference is my top end is watercooled. There is no plastic chrome on either bike and the fit and finish on both are excellent. I do like Harley chrome. I'll concede that much.
I've ridden my friends Harley. It's a great bike and he enjoys it very much, but my barge as you call it will destroy the Fatboy in every single performance category. It's faster (not even close), stops bettter (again, not even close), corners better (more clearance on the H-D, but the Vulcan is more stable) and gets better gas mileage too. Did I mention that I paid $6000 dollars less than he did and his was used.
Now I would never say any of that to my friend because I respect him and his choice of ride. I will not let you off the hook though. You made some pretty blatant generalizations and I'm calling you on it. This isn't a my bikes better than your bike post. It's a you don't bash my bike and I won't bash yours post. Deal?
Edit: BTW, I'm not defending the other dude. He dug his own hole. I'm just defending my bike.
You've got some of your own bias showing too. Ever ride a Vulcan 2000? I own one and my best friend rides a Fatboy. Except for displacement and price they are identical motorcycles. Both are V-Twins, belt drive, 5 speeds, EFI, and both have bags and windsheilds. They are even the same color. The only mechanical difference is my top end is watercooled. There is no plastic chrome on either bike and the fit and finish on both are excellent. I do like Harley chrome. I'll concede that much.
I've ridden my friends Harley. It's a great bike and he enjoys it very much, but my barge as you call it will destroy the Fatboy in every single performance category. It's faster (not even close), stops bettter (again, not even close), corners better (more clearance on the H-D, but the Vulcan is more stable) and gets better gas mileage too. Did I mention that I paid $6000 dollars less than he did and his was used.
Now I would never say any of that to my friend because I respect him and his choice of ride. I will not let you off the hook though. You made some pretty blatant generalizations and I'm calling you on it. This isn't a my bikes better than your bike post. It's a you don't bash my bike and I won't bash yours post. Deal?
Edit: BTW, I'm not defending the other dude. He dug his own hole. I'm just defending my bike.
So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley bashing
"Destroy" was excessive. I take that part back. I don't care what any magazine says. I'm telling what I know from riding with my friend. My bike outperforms his by a longshot and gets better gas mileage to boot. You may not like that but thems the facts.
I agree that his resale will be better as a comparison to price paid. However, neither one of us bought them as an investment and neither one of us plans on selling them. He still paid $6K more than I did for a similar motorcycle.
None of this changes the fact that you made some pretty general and derogatory remarks about other cruisers.
"So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post."
Any of this sound familiar? They are all generalizations.
"the ponderous and bloated metric competition"
"harsh blatty note of metrics"
"What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? "
"Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?"
and finally
"If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it."
You need to heed your own advice.
I agree that his resale will be better as a comparison to price paid. However, neither one of us bought them as an investment and neither one of us plans on selling them. He still paid $6K more than I did for a similar motorcycle.
None of this changes the fact that you made some pretty general and derogatory remarks about other cruisers.
"So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post."
Any of this sound familiar? They are all generalizations.
"the ponderous and bloated metric competition"
"harsh blatty note of metrics"
"What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? "
"Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?"
and finally
"If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it."
You need to heed your own advice.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley bashing
Since you like motorcycle reviews you might find this one an interesting read.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-14274.html
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-14274.html
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 1
From: Rockies
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: V2K
"Destroy" was excessive. I take that part back. It doesn't change the fact that you made some pretty general and derogatory remarks about other cruisers. I don't care what any magazine says. I'm telling what I know from riding with my friend. My bike outperforms his by a longshot and gets better gas mileage to boot. You may not like that but thems the facts.
I agree that his resale will be better as a comparison to price paid. However, neither one of us bought them as an investment and neither one of us plans on selling them. He still paid $6K more than I did for a similar motorcycle.
"So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post."
Any of this sound familiar? They are all generalizations.
"the ponderous and bloated metric competition"
"harsh blatty note of metrics"
"What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? "
"Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?"
and finally
"If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it."
You need to heed your own advice.
"Destroy" was excessive. I take that part back. It doesn't change the fact that you made some pretty general and derogatory remarks about other cruisers. I don't care what any magazine says. I'm telling what I know from riding with my friend. My bike outperforms his by a longshot and gets better gas mileage to boot. You may not like that but thems the facts.
I agree that his resale will be better as a comparison to price paid. However, neither one of us bought them as an investment and neither one of us plans on selling them. He still paid $6K more than I did for a similar motorcycle.
"So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post."
Any of this sound familiar? They are all generalizations.
"the ponderous and bloated metric competition"
"harsh blatty note of metrics"
"What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? "
"Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?"
and finally
"If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it."
You need to heed your own advice.
Easy to clarify!
- Just about every review of the 2000cc sized cruisers note the immense proportions, the extends-into-the-next time zone length. The questioning of increasing size and adverse handling effects. The Rocket III was blasted for this in the Cruiser review. Just passing along what reviewers note.
- Exhaust note? If there is a trademark of H-D. If there is a desire among many buying H-D. If there is agreement among all who ride bikes, it is the inimitable exhaust note of H-D and how most of the metric competition falls short. If you think this is incorrect, that this isn't a generally accepted observation, you have a right to that interesting opinion.
- Fit / finish? Another universally accepted fact. H-D fit/finish, the depth of paint, the quality of workmanship. Always called out in reviews.
- Chrome? Similar to the preceding. The cheesy amounts of plastic on the metrics (One way they cut costs) is routinely noted in reviews. I mean ROUTINELY. My friends new Roadliner? Plastic trim pieces. My three Honda cruisers? Plastic city.
These aren't generalizations, they're facts, widely obeserved. I much more prefer the reviews of Cycle World, MCN, Motorcycle Cruiser, et al. than your personal Vulcan observations. My guess is you and your friend won't have your bikes forever despite the remark "neither one of us plans on selling them."
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 1
From: Rockies
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: V2K
Since you like motorcycle reviews you might find this one an interesting read.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-14274.html
Since you like motorcycle reviews you might find this one an interesting read.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-14274.html
. And the Yam/Star RL has one of the finer metric exhaust notes. Deep and low. And it was balanced versus brainless posts here like H-D's can't handle, H-D's perform poorly, and on and on ad nauseum.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: sfarson
Oh I do
Easy to clarify!
- Just about every review of the 2000cc sized cruisers note the immense proportions, the extends-into-the-next time zone length. The questioning of increasing size and adverse handling effects. The Rocket III was blasted for this in the Cruiser review. Just passing along what reviewers note.
- Exhaust note? If there is a trademark of H-D. If there is a desire among many buying H-D. If there is agreement among all who ride bikes, it is the inimitable exhaust note of H-D and how most of the metric competition falls short. If you think this is incorrect, that this isn't a generally accepted observation, you have a right to that interesting opinion.
- Fit / finish? Another universally accepted fact. H-D fit/finish, the depth of paint, the quality of workmanship. Always called out in reviews.
- Chrome? Similar to the preceding. The cheesy amounts of plastic on the metrics (One way they cut costs) is routinely noted in reviews. I mean ROUTINELY. My friends new Roadliner? Plastic trim pieces. My three Honda cruisers? Plastic city.
These aren't generalizations, they're facts, widely obeserved. I much more prefer the reviews of Cycle World, MCN, Motorcycle Cruiser, et al. than your personal Vulcan observations. My guess is you and your friend won't have your bikes forever despite the remark "neither one of us plans on selling them."
ORIGINAL: V2K
"Destroy" was excessive. I take that part back. It doesn't change the fact that you made some pretty general and derogatory remarks about other cruisers. I don't care what any magazine says. I'm telling what I know from riding with my friend. My bike outperforms his by a longshot and gets better gas mileage to boot. You may not like that but thems the facts.
I agree that his resale will be better as a comparison to price paid. However, neither one of us bought them as an investment and neither one of us plans on selling them. He still paid $6K more than I did for a similar motorcycle.
"So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post."
Any of this sound familiar? They are all generalizations.
"the ponderous and bloated metric competition"
"harsh blatty note of metrics"
"What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? "
"Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?"
and finally
"If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it."
You need to heed your own advice.
"Destroy" was excessive. I take that part back. It doesn't change the fact that you made some pretty general and derogatory remarks about other cruisers. I don't care what any magazine says. I'm telling what I know from riding with my friend. My bike outperforms his by a longshot and gets better gas mileage to boot. You may not like that but thems the facts.
I agree that his resale will be better as a comparison to price paid. However, neither one of us bought them as an investment and neither one of us plans on selling them. He still paid $6K more than I did for a similar motorcycle.
"So help me... give me the blatant generalizations in my post."
Any of this sound familiar? They are all generalizations.
"the ponderous and bloated metric competition"
"harsh blatty note of metrics"
"What metric cruisers offer the fit / finish of H-D? "
"Which ones offer more chrome instead of plastic?"
and finally
"If you want to offer a post with value, be more objective and less subjective. Be more equipped and informed. Show some appreciation for the diversity of the sport. That not everyone rides like you, thinks like you, looks like you... and be thankful for it."
You need to heed your own advice.
Easy to clarify!
- Just about every review of the 2000cc sized cruisers note the immense proportions, the extends-into-the-next time zone length. The questioning of increasing size and adverse handling effects. The Rocket III was blasted for this in the Cruiser review. Just passing along what reviewers note.
- Exhaust note? If there is a trademark of H-D. If there is a desire among many buying H-D. If there is agreement among all who ride bikes, it is the inimitable exhaust note of H-D and how most of the metric competition falls short. If you think this is incorrect, that this isn't a generally accepted observation, you have a right to that interesting opinion.
- Fit / finish? Another universally accepted fact. H-D fit/finish, the depth of paint, the quality of workmanship. Always called out in reviews.
- Chrome? Similar to the preceding. The cheesy amounts of plastic on the metrics (One way they cut costs) is routinely noted in reviews. I mean ROUTINELY. My friends new Roadliner? Plastic trim pieces. My three Honda cruisers? Plastic city.
These aren't generalizations, they're facts, widely obeserved. I much more prefer the reviews of Cycle World, MCN, Motorcycle Cruiser, et al. than your personal Vulcan observations. My guess is you and your friend won't have your bikes forever despite the remark "neither one of us plans on selling them."
For anybody else reading this, this is not where I wanted to go with this thread. It was supposed to be about NOT bashing each others rides. I got sucked in by this guys comments and got defensive about my ride. I respect what anybody else rides and I expect the same courtesy. Forgive me for getting a little off track with this guy. It won't happen again.
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Joe Kucinski
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,331
Likes: 56
From: north of Daytona
RE: Harley bashing
OK..... a person asked at the begiining of this "I know we all poke fun amound buddies over bikes and brands; But damn these people go over board. Does anybody have a clue why?"
A read the last few posts and all you seeing is bashing. I glad that it matters so much to some people what I ride. It basically comes down to is choice, and no matter what the reason for the choice is.......choose it.
Whether it is economics, social, education or your dad didn't love you enough...whatever.
I don't care about your house, car, bike, or your dog. For some reason you got them. As long as I don't have to walk, feed, scoop-up after your dog....I don't care. (but if I had a dog...I would be bashing yours).
A read the last few posts and all you seeing is bashing. I glad that it matters so much to some people what I ride. It basically comes down to is choice, and no matter what the reason for the choice is.......choose it.
Whether it is economics, social, education or your dad didn't love you enough...whatever.
I don't care about your house, car, bike, or your dog. For some reason you got them. As long as I don't have to walk, feed, scoop-up after your dog....I don't care. (but if I had a dog...I would be bashing yours).
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 1
From: Rockies
RE: Harley bashing
ORIGINAL: V2K
Those are generalizations whether you recognize it or not.
...
Those are generalizations whether you recognize it or not.
...
The review you note above has the Vulcan and the Springer tied for second, not the Vulcan ahead of the H-D. And I'm with you when it comes to defense. When the immense proportions of the Vulcan are noted, I'm ready to back that up with industry observations not my own. When you note the Vulcan "destroys" the H-D you open the door and I seek proof/evidence. Don't mess with me on logic!