DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 25,962
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From: Montana & Arkansas
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Ya! It's just a choice of words, like Ken says.
I don't think I could even ride a bike without "counter-steering" except super low speed stuff.
I don't think I could even ride a bike without "counter-steering" except super low speed stuff.
ORIGINAL: ken thompson
All of the above methods of turning ie shifting weight etc. even without using your hands directs the handlebars in exactly the same direction as if you were countersteering with your hands. Still no difference. The only way a bike will turn at speed is if the front tire is slightly out of alignment from the rear. In a left turn it will be slightly to the right of the rar tire. To turn right the front tire musttake a line slightly to the left of the rear. It's the only way a bike willturn at speed. Hoever you are managing to create this"mal-alignment" it's still the same. Countersteering is just a word used to verbally communicate a concept.
All of the above methods of turning ie shifting weight etc. even without using your hands directs the handlebars in exactly the same direction as if you were countersteering with your hands. Still no difference. The only way a bike will turn at speed is if the front tire is slightly out of alignment from the rear. In a left turn it will be slightly to the right of the rar tire. To turn right the front tire musttake a line slightly to the left of the rear. It's the only way a bike willturn at speed. Hoever you are managing to create this"mal-alignment" it's still the same. Countersteering is just a word used to verbally communicate a concept.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,754
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From: GA
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: 3power
You did, but you didn't do it consciously. It's the only way to lean it over at speed. Don't fight it . . you were a countersteerer even in the old days! 
ORIGINAL: cray49a
In the old days you just leaned. You didn't push the bar.
In the old days you just leaned. You didn't push the bar.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 240
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From:
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
check out wiki,countersteering is a technique (pushing on the bars) but it also is a physical phenomenon which has to occur to turn
check out wiki,countersteering is a technique (pushing on the bars) but it also is a physical phenomenon which has to occur to turn
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,300
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From: Central Virginia
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
On a two-wheeler, the spinning wheels acts just like a gyro. The faster you go, the more stable the bike becomes due to the gyro effect. To stay balanced, the rider unconciously makes minute adjustment using the handlebars from side to side, moving the front tire's contact patch. To turn requires that you lean the machine. To accomplish the lean, the bike must become unbalanced, causing it to lean in the direction you want. Unbalancing the bike is achieved through counter-steering. To turn right, the bike must be leaned right. Leaning the bike right is achieved by slightly turning the front tire to the left, thus causing the bike to "fall" over to the right. Get it? The more you push the right handgrip forward the steeper the lean and sharper the turn. Pushing the left handgrip then results in the bike going upright and out of its lean angle. If you were to put paint on your tires and ride down the road, you could look back and see one straight track (rear tire) and one serpentine track weaving back and forth (front tire).
The gent in the photo obviously went into the curve too hot causing him to exceed the performance capabilities of both himself and his bagger. Its diffently one of those "Oh, ****" moments for both riders pictured.
The gent in the photo obviously went into the curve too hot causing him to exceed the performance capabilities of both himself and his bagger. Its diffently one of those "Oh, ****" moments for both riders pictured.
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Physics has not changed in a million years. Someone said it earlier....you do it without knowing it. It is impossible to have a single track vehicle turn without using countersteering. It will vary in degrees, depending on speed and radius, etc....but it is still being done. At a threshold speed, one cannot make a turn without using it. Call it countersteering, push steering, or whatever, it is still doing the same thing. It is part of the gyroscopic effect of the front wheel turning that dictates this type of steering to be used. Try this oldie but goodie experiment....stand on one of those spinning exercise thingys, hold a bicycle tire out in front with arms extended, then have someone spin it, then turn handlebars.....
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,831
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From: Nomad
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
This is a great discussion. Technique!
To turn a bike, you have to get the bike to lean. period. You can do this through adjusting body attitude (attitude in the physics sense). It works. Either by dropping the inside shoulder, sliding your hips to the inside of the turn or just leaning. It works.
But, safety come from efficiency and precision.
Countersteering allows you to lean the bike with the smallest and most easily correctable motion. The technique was developed by road cyclists (you know, Lance Armstrong cycling, but long ago). Try descending an 18% mountain pass at 50+ mph on a 13 lb. bike on high-pressure tires that are only 23mm wide. You don't want to be moving your body around too much. So...countersteering. It's incredibly precise, keeps the rider's weight over the centerline of the bike, and allows you to adjust your line without adjusting speed (through braking, pedaling--or for us, opening throttle). Of course, you have to do that before entering the turn. It allows riders on flat, i.e. non-banked, roads to turn at high speed like track riders.
But, there are more advanced turning techniques for racers, which us mere mortals don't need to worry about, but they look good on TV.
To turn a bike, you have to get the bike to lean. period. You can do this through adjusting body attitude (attitude in the physics sense). It works. Either by dropping the inside shoulder, sliding your hips to the inside of the turn or just leaning. It works.
But, safety come from efficiency and precision.
Countersteering allows you to lean the bike with the smallest and most easily correctable motion. The technique was developed by road cyclists (you know, Lance Armstrong cycling, but long ago). Try descending an 18% mountain pass at 50+ mph on a 13 lb. bike on high-pressure tires that are only 23mm wide. You don't want to be moving your body around too much. So...countersteering. It's incredibly precise, keeps the rider's weight over the centerline of the bike, and allows you to adjust your line without adjusting speed (through braking, pedaling--or for us, opening throttle). Of course, you have to do that before entering the turn. It allows riders on flat, i.e. non-banked, roads to turn at high speed like track riders.
But, there are more advanced turning techniques for racers, which us mere mortals don't need to worry about, but they look good on TV.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 2
From: Appling GA
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
You cant take your hands off the bars and lean without the bike counter steering itself... If you are at *speed* you counter steer period... You may not do it right(you go the wrong way) but still a bike has to countersteer its just a law of physics(gyroscoptic progression) All the arguing and denial in the world aint gonna change science...
Your article only proves that some folks dont know how to ride well.
Your article only proves that some folks dont know how to ride well.
ORIGINAL: meanbite
Here is a pretty good article I found. http://www.stevemunden.com/countersteering.html. You can agree with me or be wrong but you don't HAVE to countersteer to turn a bike. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't though.
Here is a pretty good article I found. http://www.stevemunden.com/countersteering.html. You can agree with me or be wrong but you don't HAVE to countersteer to turn a bike. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't though.