DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: chadriggs
See the following:
See the following:
Excellent article. I "coined" the term "Dixie cup theory" a long time ago on this forum when I was explaining countersteering.
Here is the text of an email I just sent the author of that article linked above:
Keith,
I read your very fine article on countersteering on the web.
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php
I don’t believe it is correct to say that countersteering hasn’t been explained. Can you picture what happens when you place a Dixie cup on its side and roll it? Because the lip is larger than the base, the effective rim speed of the lip is greater and the cup rolls in a circle around the base. It turns.
Your tires are like that. Once leaned to either side, there is a difference in diameter across the contact patch and the tire will turn toward the rim – the smallest part. This turning force – I call it the Dixie cup theory – is greater than the centrifugal force that tries to lean the bike and turn it to the outside of the curve. It is also greater than the gyroscopic precession induced by the spinning tires and wheels. (Ever play with a toy gyroscope to notice how it jumps in a direction opposite of how you move it?)
Now about body leaning. Newton said that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. In other words, when you try to shift your body over to lean the bike, you are equally pushing on the bike in the opposite direction. You can’t toss your body one way without pushing the bike the other!
Therein lies the problem. The bike must lean over to initiate the Dixie cup reaction and the only way to do that is to countersteer. Countersteering instantly lays the bike over and the Dixie cup action of the tires does all of the rest.
When we were kids we could muscle a bicycle around because: 1. We weren’t going fast enough for countersteering to be effective and/or 2. The bike didn’t weigh 700 pounds.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 16
From: Peoria, AZ
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: tampa
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
all i have to say is "wow!" i can't believe how many people have misconceptions about how to steer a bike. i'm actually a little scared. as others have stated, counter-steering is the only way to steer a bike. anybody that didn't read the aforementioned article (http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php), please do. also, i believe alot of people would benefit from reading this book http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Mo...517&sr=8-1
it is "a twist of the wrist" by keith code.
one guy above said that a benefit of counter-steering is keeping your weight over the center of the bike. well, actually to get the best traction you want to get your weight off the bike. watch any motorcyle race and watch the guys shift their weight off the bike and put their knee down. (i'm not sayin that this is the way anyone should ride on the street, but it is the way to maximize traction.)
also, the pic off the guy that was about to crash, i'm not sure, but i think the pic has been photoshopped.
it is "a twist of the wrist" by keith code.
one guy above said that a benefit of counter-steering is keeping your weight over the center of the bike. well, actually to get the best traction you want to get your weight off the bike. watch any motorcyle race and watch the guys shift their weight off the bike and put their knee down. (i'm not sayin that this is the way anyone should ride on the street, but it is the way to maximize traction.)
also, the pic off the guy that was about to crash, i'm not sure, but i think the pic has been photoshopped.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: bad_azz
-snip-
also, the pic off the guy that was about to crash, i'm not sure, but i think the pic has been photoshopped.
-snip-
also, the pic off the guy that was about to crash, i'm not sure, but i think the pic has been photoshopped.
Can you please be specific, technically, about what you see that makes you think it might be 'shopped?
Thanks.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: tampa
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
if you blew it up and examined it i could be wrong, but.... no scrape marks on ground from metal dragging, position of front tire with the bike leaned over that far(i believe it should be on more of an angle), other riders blurred because of movement subject was not blurred, and most importantly, how did this pic get taken? was someone standing there waiting for it to happen like adam sandler in big daddy?
i'm no expert, it was just an observation.
(sorry about the huge run on sentence)
i'm no expert, it was just an observation.
(sorry about the huge run on sentence)
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern USA
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: cray49a
CURIOUS. How many of you use counter-steering predominantly?
When I learned to ride (way back when)I never did. Of course, I never used the front brake either back in those days.
But about 3 years ago a pocket rocket friend of mine gave me a book to read on riding techniques. I've been counter-steering ever since. MORE IMMEDIATE and EXACTING CONTROL especially in exigent circumstances.
I have a bud who doesn't believe in it. But, he's stubborn old school.
CURIOUS. How many of you use counter-steering predominantly?
When I learned to ride (way back when)I never did. Of course, I never used the front brake either back in those days.
But about 3 years ago a pocket rocket friend of mine gave me a book to read on riding techniques. I've been counter-steering ever since. MORE IMMEDIATE and EXACTING CONTROL especially in exigent circumstances.
I have a bud who doesn't believe in it. But, he's stubborn old school.
How deep could this rabbit hole of numbnuttery possibly be??
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Tourer
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 491
Likes: 5
From:
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Sorry, but you can't ride a motorcycle (or any 2 wheel vehicle for that matter), without countersteering....well unless you keep your speed below 10 mph all the time.... After about 10-15mph the laws of physics take over and you are counter steering whether you realize it or not.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 886
Likes: 3
From: NC Mountains
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Geez...who thinks about the physycs of negotiating a turn? Either you can get through it or not. Go too fast and force will take you in a direction you don't want to go in. Too slow and you may get run over.