DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,699
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From:
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
I can't believe this thread went on for so long! Anywho, here is what I see as the bottom line.
First, I refer to counter steering as a deliberate act by the rider, not the physics of the bike. With that in mind here is the bottom line.
Counter steering - the rider forces the bike to lean to one side or the other of it's center of gravity by turning the wheel in the oposite direction thereby pulling the tire out from under the center of gravity and leaning the bike to the opposite side.
Body steering - similar affect but it is the drivers weight shifting to the side of the turn that causes the bike to lean.
What's the difference?
In counter steering the bike reacts first based on handlebar input. In body steering the rider reacts first and then the bike has to catch up with the redistribution of weight. This is why countersteering is more precise, responsive and overall a better way to turn a bike. Ok, I'm going to bed!
First, I refer to counter steering as a deliberate act by the rider, not the physics of the bike. With that in mind here is the bottom line.
Counter steering - the rider forces the bike to lean to one side or the other of it's center of gravity by turning the wheel in the oposite direction thereby pulling the tire out from under the center of gravity and leaning the bike to the opposite side.
Body steering - similar affect but it is the drivers weight shifting to the side of the turn that causes the bike to lean.
What's the difference?
In counter steering the bike reacts first based on handlebar input. In body steering the rider reacts first and then the bike has to catch up with the redistribution of weight. This is why countersteering is more precise, responsive and overall a better way to turn a bike. Ok, I'm going to bed!
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,290
Likes: 4
From: Payson, AZ
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: Skylark
Sure do. Read about it back in the 70's in Cycle magazine. Told a buddy of mine about it a couple weeks ago,he thought I was nuts. He's since tried it and says he doesn't believe what a difference in the whole riding experience for him. Try it-you'll like it.
Sure do. Read about it back in the 70's in Cycle magazine. Told a buddy of mine about it a couple weeks ago,he thought I was nuts. He's since tried it and says he doesn't believe what a difference in the whole riding experience for him. Try it-you'll like it.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
I concur!...All are countersteering whether they believe it or not...."shifting weight" is a "Type of" countersteering. However Push/pulling od the bars is the most effective/less work needed for the best result. Yes racers/dirttrackers lean and often drag a knee as combining bot increases the turn radius.
Someone above said about Pushing/Pulling to turn this is true drop your left hand and only using the right hand push or pull up to steer ....try it! I often hold a camera in my left hand and take pics and I steer while at speed using thsi method in curves (this is probably not "safe" but it works while taking pics.
In the experienced riders class we had te do this (steering) by dropping on hand then the other while taking the class in the marked s curves/turns.
I can not believe the number of people that say they do not do this! If you did not you would not be here (See any Basic/Experienced/Riding like a pro/ Pd class and this is taught for higher speed turning.
Low speed another story (friction ZONE. Throttle, rear brake.
The fellow missing the turn...an example of to little to late..he was to far into the turn before he started to countersteer and possible combined with to much speed he is in a world of hurt!
Marty.
Someone above said about Pushing/Pulling to turn this is true drop your left hand and only using the right hand push or pull up to steer ....try it! I often hold a camera in my left hand and take pics and I steer while at speed using thsi method in curves (this is probably not "safe" but it works while taking pics.
In the experienced riders class we had te do this (steering) by dropping on hand then the other while taking the class in the marked s curves/turns.
I can not believe the number of people that say they do not do this! If you did not you would not be here (See any Basic/Experienced/Riding like a pro/ Pd class and this is taught for higher speed turning.
Low speed another story (friction ZONE. Throttle, rear brake.
The fellow missing the turn...an example of to little to late..he was to far into the turn before he started to countersteer and possible combined with to much speed he is in a world of hurt!
Marty.
ORIGINAL: MNPGRider
I'm sorry but you are wrong. You can steer a bike with no bars at all. Check out the video I posted earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBw0yH509lw
that was a great video, meanbite. At 2 minutes into it, I saw a rider turn a bike in a tight circle both directions without touching the handlebars, at a relatively slow speed, slow enough that the front tire was doing the turning, justas the front tire turnsa tricycle. At that slow of a speedcountersteering has little effect.
Now, re-read my post, and the observation that Keith Code makes about turning a bike at speed. Big difference.
If we wiggle around enough without our hands on the handlebars, at speed, we can get a bike to start to turn one direction or the other. Now, try getting it to come back the other way, or try negotiaing a fast s curve, without putting your hands back on the handlebars. Just make sure your insurance is paid up first....
I'm sorry but you are wrong. You can steer a bike with no bars at all. Check out the video I posted earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBw0yH509lw
that was a great video, meanbite. At 2 minutes into it, I saw a rider turn a bike in a tight circle both directions without touching the handlebars, at a relatively slow speed, slow enough that the front tire was doing the turning, justas the front tire turnsa tricycle. At that slow of a speedcountersteering has little effect.
Now, re-read my post, and the observation that Keith Code makes about turning a bike at speed. Big difference.
If we wiggle around enough without our hands on the handlebars, at speed, we can get a bike to start to turn one direction or the other. Now, try getting it to come back the other way, or try negotiaing a fast s curve, without putting your hands back on the handlebars. Just make sure your insurance is paid up first....
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,334
Likes: 0
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Yeah I read about it also in Cycle back then .
Some bikes are so effortless you don't realize your doing it , fork geometry has alot to do with it .
The shallow raked ( more vertical ) bikes make it easy ( I think Eric Buell calls it flickability) and the long raked bikes you have to use more effort.
Of course the short raked bikes takes more concentration to hold a straight line and the long raked types would rather hold a straight line .
I always prefered the former .
Some bikes are so effortless you don't realize your doing it , fork geometry has alot to do with it .
The shallow raked ( more vertical ) bikes make it easy ( I think Eric Buell calls it flickability) and the long raked bikes you have to use more effort.
Of course the short raked bikes takes more concentration to hold a straight line and the long raked types would rather hold a straight line .
I always prefered the former .
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, NM
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
MAN, this crap is gettin' old. 
Some of y'all were bein' nice about it, but I think we oughta cut to the chase.
Anybody who thinks they can take a 400-900 lb bike thru some curves WITHOUT moving the wheel in the OPPOSITE direction of
the path of travel??? (COUNTERSTEERING)
Well, they must be a frikkin' IDIOT!!! And as stated before, theyWILL be in the ditch sooner than later...
Y'all old dirtbikers and round-de-round guys KNOW...
Some of y'all were bein' nice about it, but I think we oughta cut to the chase.
Anybody who thinks they can take a 400-900 lb bike thru some curves WITHOUT moving the wheel in the OPPOSITE direction of
the path of travel??? (COUNTERSTEERING)
Well, they must be a frikkin' IDIOT!!! And as stated before, theyWILL be in the ditch sooner than later...
Y'all old dirtbikers and round-de-round guys KNOW...
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 2
From: Appling GA
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: the glove
only one way! push right, go right.................
only one way! push right, go right.................
And Meanbite, you are right since its all in your wording...
"First, I refer to counter steering as a deliberate act by the rider, not the physics of the bike. With that in mind here is the bottom line."
Quoted out of the enclyclopedia...
"It is important to distinguish between countersteering as a physical phenomenon and countersteering as a rider technique for initiating a lean. The physical phenomenon always occurs, because there is no other way to cause the bike and rider to lean short of some outside influence such as an opportune side wind.
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
All I know is that whatever anyone is doing and is keeping the shiny side up, keep on keepin on, and have fun! We all can put in our2cents worth, but in the end, as long as we're ridin' and gettin to where we're goin, don't try to over analyze this, especially if you're in the middle of a curve! Just ride and the rest will take care of itself.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: cray49a
I bet this guys wishes he knew how!
I bet this guys wishes he knew how!