Some feedback please..
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 621
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From: Halfway to Hell
Depends on whether or not a ***** rides it.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 527
Likes: 1
From: TEOC, MS
The bike you build should be in the 250-350cc range. It should be lightweight and cost less than 4k. Think about kids and grandkids. Would you want your kid to learn on a Harley? Sure you would, but they don't make one that small. The bike should have the classic harley look. Differentiate it from the "metrics" as other posters have mentioned. If it has Harley on its tank, it has to be a quality bike and small enough that kids and ladies that want to learn to ride won't be afraid to try. Size Does Matter (sometimes)
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,729
Likes: 29
From: IA
The bike you build should be in the 250-350cc range. It should be lightweight and cost less than 4k. Think about kids and grandkids. Would you want your kid to learn on a Harley? Sure you would, but they don't make one that small. The bike should have the classic harley look. Differentiate it from the "metrics" as other posters have mentioned. If it has Harley on its tank, it has to be a quality bike and small enough that kids and ladies that want to learn to ride won't be afraid to try. Size Does Matter (sometimes)
seriously dude, a sportster 883 is fine for kids 16+ and ladies, i realisticly dont see HD making a smaller bike just cause well you dotn really need it, the 883 weighs what 450lbs give or take? nothing wrong with that i know lots of petite ladies that ride the 883 and have ridden it from the get go. hell my 15 year old cousin has riden my sporty in the wal-mart parking lot and she had no problems manuvering it. if its a price factor then HD wont make a cheaper bike then the sporty, if you want cheaper or smaller your gonna have to go metric.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 1
From: LI, NY
All Sportsters today weigh from 562 to 589 lbs.
Back in the thirties big twins weighed in as low as 529 lbs.
45's/750's where 390 lbs.
A lot of people still buy Jap bikes because they cost less and weigh less.
A 500 v twin Harley under 400 lbs will take a lot of sales away from the competition. People would be able to buy a bike that would not intimidate them because of all or any combination of two much weight, power, price.
Don't say Harley customers did not want a lite 500 bike because too few Buell Blasts were sold. Comparing apples to crap.
Harley owners want Harleys, not Buells. And, I don't think it would hurt Sportster sales. For those that wont' settle for less then a 1200 won't. Just the way Sportster won't take sales away from a Super Glide because a SG fan won't settle for a Sportster.
My son last winter bought a nightster. Makes me wish I could go out and buy a Super Glide like the one I had when I was young. However I can't afford a used one let alone a new one.
Better to ride an 833 or "500" then not to ride at all.
Right now I can't even afford a 883. Who knows what next year will bring?
Back in the thirties big twins weighed in as low as 529 lbs.
45's/750's where 390 lbs.
A lot of people still buy Jap bikes because they cost less and weigh less.
A 500 v twin Harley under 400 lbs will take a lot of sales away from the competition. People would be able to buy a bike that would not intimidate them because of all or any combination of two much weight, power, price.
Don't say Harley customers did not want a lite 500 bike because too few Buell Blasts were sold. Comparing apples to crap.
Harley owners want Harleys, not Buells. And, I don't think it would hurt Sportster sales. For those that wont' settle for less then a 1200 won't. Just the way Sportster won't take sales away from a Super Glide because a SG fan won't settle for a Sportster.
My son last winter bought a nightster. Makes me wish I could go out and buy a Super Glide like the one I had when I was young. However I can't afford a used one let alone a new one.
Better to ride an 833 or "500" then not to ride at all.
Right now I can't even afford a 883. Who knows what next year will bring?
Last edited by 32vld; Mar 4, 2010 at 07:12 AM.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 527
Likes: 1
From: TEOC, MS
The youngest age a person can take the Riders Edge program is 12 with parental consent. Look at who you are leaving out!! Every kid 12 up that wants to ride a legend. I agree the Buell was a piece of crap. It was unpredictable, never knew where the clutch was going to release, how much throttle to give etc... a very hard bike to train a person that had never ridden/driven a bike. As far as engine size goes, this is a comfortable range for beginners. Ask yourself how many are actually going to be on the highway at highway speed. Most of these will be inter city transportation. Look at the popularity of the "scooter". That's the market you want to put a dent in. This bike will need to represent the Harley image well enough for the younger kids to want and be proud enough to say, "yeah, I had one of those when I was a kid just learning to ride".
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,250
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From: St. Cloud Minnesota
My answer would be no. Harley should remain Harley. There was a similar Thread a while back asking this same question. I it is my belief that the reason that people want Harleys is because they are big and bad (so to Speak). The only reason for making a smaller Harley is to knuckle down to the crowd that wants a Harley but this person belongs to the generation that deserves everything now. I do not mean to offend some people, but this thread asked for an opinion.
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Road Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Likes: 1
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Could the 883 be modified for use on the learning range? If so, H-D could provide a modified 883 for some and use a different make for students that want to start off on a smaller motorcycle. Just a thought.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,729
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From: IA
I am thinking some folks aren't quite getting this. Maybe my fault for not asking a better question.
For training programs a bike has to be under 500CC it isn't a choice, it is a requirement. No program can be legally certified to train with anything bigger than 500CC and that is not going to change. You can rant, rave, and whine all you want, 500CC Max period, no discussion. In fact some states refuse to increase to the 500CC allowance and are still limited to 350CC.
Harley currently has almost 200 training programs (more being added yearly). Over 250 ranges in over 40 States doing close to 40,000 students (potential new customers) a year. Most are at their biggest and highest rated Dealerships and those dealers have tens of thousands invested in the programs. While production may be down they are increasing investment and supporting customer development, it is their future.
The Blast is being phased out. Soon here won't be any left for new program start-ups. Harley will not use a non Harley product at their own dealerships to train on, again, period, not for discussion. That decision is made.
It is not a matter of IF, it is a matter of WHAT and WHEN. A smaller bike is coming. There is a built in market in the training programs for thousands so it will sell because the programs will have to use them and they have to buy the bikes, just like anything else, from Harley. What is the question. Because they will want to rotate training fleets and market to new buyers they want a Smaller Harley badged bike that will sell. Wether it is a modified de-tuned sporty or a completely new bike (probably made off-shore) is up to marketing surveys. I was curious about what you would think it should look like.
For training programs a bike has to be under 500CC it isn't a choice, it is a requirement. No program can be legally certified to train with anything bigger than 500CC and that is not going to change. You can rant, rave, and whine all you want, 500CC Max period, no discussion. In fact some states refuse to increase to the 500CC allowance and are still limited to 350CC.
Harley currently has almost 200 training programs (more being added yearly). Over 250 ranges in over 40 States doing close to 40,000 students (potential new customers) a year. Most are at their biggest and highest rated Dealerships and those dealers have tens of thousands invested in the programs. While production may be down they are increasing investment and supporting customer development, it is their future.
The Blast is being phased out. Soon here won't be any left for new program start-ups. Harley will not use a non Harley product at their own dealerships to train on, again, period, not for discussion. That decision is made.
It is not a matter of IF, it is a matter of WHAT and WHEN. A smaller bike is coming. There is a built in market in the training programs for thousands so it will sell because the programs will have to use them and they have to buy the bikes, just like anything else, from Harley. What is the question. Because they will want to rotate training fleets and market to new buyers they want a Smaller Harley badged bike that will sell. Wether it is a modified de-tuned sporty or a completely new bike (probably made off-shore) is up to marketing surveys. I was curious about what you would think it should look like.
Last edited by FLTR08; Mar 4, 2010 at 12:30 PM.