I owned Harley's for many years, buying several new ones from Farthest North Outpost in Fairbanks, Alaska. I ended up getting into fast Japanese bikes for a while and hadn't thought about a new Harley until the V Rod came out a few years ago. I didn't like in Alaska anymore, so went into a dealership in the lower 48. They wanted 8k over list. I explained that I was a veteran, wrote letters in support of the import tax on foreign bikes over 750cc, and had owned Harley's since the not so great AMF days. They laughed and said they'd get their price all day long. I wrote a letter to Harley, they sent a nice reply thanking me for years of patronage, but explaining that they allow their dealers to set the final price. It brought to mind the popularity of the Porsche Boxster when it first came out. Folks could get on the list, buy it for MSRP and sell it the next day for at least 20k more than they paid for it. Porsche respected their customers enough that they wouldn't allow their dealers to gouge them. I thought that showed a lot of class.

I ended up talking with the owner of the Harley store with the 8k over list bikes. He said that they had monthly barbeques and a great service waiting lounge and could give more for a trade, if someone had one, than anyone else. Heck, I would hope with the additional markup that they could show someone a decent trade value! I explained that I put 52,000 miles on my 91 FLHTC in two summers of riding in Alaska, and it's not a long riding season, and that I didn't want to set in his service lounge and chat with tough guy-come-biker accountants that have their first Harley in the shop and will ride it 500 miles a year. I didn't need to meet new friends at their barbeques. I promised to never attend one, but he told me that I needed to get back into the lifestyle and that I'd find all that extra money so worth the price of admission. He didn't convince me.

I understand the strong resale, and the huge demand for bikes. I also understand that there are some other worthwhile, American made choices out there. I felt pretty unappreciated as a long time customer and devotee and pretty much gave up the idea of buying another one of their bikes. Now low and behold, it seems that there are more and more stores that will sell for MSRP (less than MSRP on some bikes), charge what Harley does for shipping, with a reasonable set up charge. Some of these stores it seems even have some barbeques if someone wants to attend them. I was even in one recently that had some nice leather furniture in the waiting area, and an excellent looking shop facility. I think being able to get one for what Harley says it should sell for has convinced me to order an 06 Road King.

Sorry to ramble. I am just curious as to how everyone feels about the extra dealer markup that still seems so prevalent. I know there are varying opinions, I'd ejoy hearing some.

 

I think that the market has levelled out in the past 2 years or so and over MSRP is now the exception than the rule. Unfortunately, it seems to now have snagged up the used market. Peeople who paid the $8000 over are wanting to sell their bikes at only a 10 - 15 % loss and people are buying new instead. The people who ride 500 miles a year and paid 8 grand over and it's now 4 years old and they're bored with it...they're the ones taking a bath.
Maybe, life is fair sometimes.
Welcome and good to have you on the Forum. Art

 

Thanks Art. It would suck to have paid so much over list, and want to sell it with few miles on it and feeling like you need to get what a dealer will now sell it new for.

The dealer that I talked to went on and on about their parts inventory and their great facility, yadda, yadda, yadda. I figure in this day and age even if a dealer doesn't have a part, they can get it relatively quickly. For all the extra money they were wanting, I'd sure be okay with waiting for a part every now and then, and maybe setting in a chair that wasn't from a recognized designer while I'm waiting for service.

 

Jeff, you're right on about the stealers and the attitudes of them & the "I gotta have a Harley 'cause everyone else does" types. When I got rid of my Shovel it took a couple years to find another bike at a decent price. And it sure wasn't at a dealership! Plenty of reasonably priced used bikes are available. I looked for one with about the miles on it that said the owner might've had a clue. I smile whenever I see the idjits trying to sell their 500 mile/year bikes for what they have in it, especially the crowd that had to add on every piece of jim-crack HD had on the chrome rack.

(Don't get me wrong, while I don't much care for chrome, it can be used to set off a clean bike. Too much of it makes a bike look like a woman with 16 ear bobs in each ear, a nose ring, belly button stud, snot-grabber through her nose, and studs stuck through her eyebrows. Too much!)

 

Skip
I agree with you about too much chrome, it must be done tastefully and with a theme.

 

Budby wants you to pay him $8,000 to pay for a "lifestyle" that he determines is right? Crazy! There is lots of dealers that will sell at MSRP. For $8,000 you can travel anywhere in the world to buy your bike.

Skip, did I tell you I like chrome?

 

Weren't they selling Vrods at a discount last year for poor sales? I also think Harley might be shooting itself in the foot by over producing now and could hurt the sales of thier bikes in the future. If they keep over producing the value of all harleys will go down. Just my take and could be off the mark.

 

Actually, Harley cannot, by law, demand that dealers sell at a certain price. Only by producing enough product to meet demand can they affect the market price of the products they make. The problem is to not over produce and have to have fire sales like the auto industry.

A few years ago Harley actually made an official inquiry to the Commerce Department as to the ability to enforce MSRP sales pricing on the dealers and were told they could not unless they owned the dealership (company store).

Lifestyle or not, motorcycles are still products, and are subject to market forces like everything else.

 

Harley is losing market share, and fast. They're stock is down quite a bit this year because they're getting their asses kicked by the new up and comers: Victory, Big Dog, Texas Iron Horse, Bourget, etc. They are slowly starting to realize that they don't get to act like suck arrogant ****** anymore because consumers have more choices, which means more competition for them.

I own a Harley, but I will never set foot in a Harley dealership. They're all about selling culture now, like MTV, and most of their products are overpriced anyway.

 

Jeff,

I couldnt agree with you more. In Arizona about 90% of the dealers here act as if they are doing their customers a favor by letting their customers do buisness with them.

I was completely floored when I walked into Arrowhead Harley-Davidson about a hour before the store was closing after work with my wife looking at an 05 wideglide, when they shut the f' ing lights off and told me I had to leave because they were closing. In that hour we watched more folks walking out with t shirts and hats that the sales staff was more than happy to help and never once had anyone ask if they could help us. When I politely told the arrogant shitbag that I wanted to actually buy a motorcycle and not t-shirt I was told that I needed to come back during normal business hours. Well that cut it and I could see that nothing had really ever changed with an HD dealership in the last 17 years since I had my last bike. I swore I would never set foot into another dealership and I havent. I would rather wait one or two days for my local outlaw shop to get the parts than to ever get treated like that again.

Johnny aka Buzz