General Harley Davidson Chat Forum to discuss general Harley Davidson issues, topics, and experiences.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Another argument agains ethanol

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 08:43 AM
  #1  
ks6c's Avatar
ks6c
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Castle Rock, CO
Default Another argument agains ethanol

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...pinion_LEADTop

BTW, Peter and his wife both ride Harleys.
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 09:22 AM
  #2  
SkipCarey's Avatar
SkipCarey
Tourer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Default

Well......... the world has Osama bin laden to thank for this NOT the US,I say lettem starve rather than have one more American GI die in the middle east.
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 09:26 AM
  #3  
drukanfu's Avatar
drukanfu
Supporter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,189
Likes: 16
From: N.E. Wisconsin
Default

......The trouble is it's all about money/politics.
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 12:18 PM
  #4  
TennesseeMustangPerf's Avatar
TennesseeMustangPerf
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,828
Likes: 8
Default

Ethanol was designed to create an alternative- non-petroleum fuel that would be easier on the environment as well as lower production costs. Problem is that it does neither. It burns at 75% the efficiency rate as gasoline, therefore more is needed to product the same amount of energy, and gasoline is not directly priced off of production costs as much as it is speculation and price fixing. Speculators are the ones who keep fuel costs up, and they stand to make HUGE money off of it. When Ethanol came out, it did bring down the cost of fuel slightly, but soon went back up to where it was before. In turn, we are not saving any money on the cost of fuel (to the contrary, it's lower burn rate makes it more expensive), we are just cutting production costs to pad the pockets of those who sell it. Just as with all fuel price surges, the cost will spike up overnight and then drift down over several months. This fast climb and slow fall is called "rockets and feathers". It is sort of like Coca-Cola watering their product down fifty percent, then dropping the price $.25, then hiking the cost back up $.25 in two weeks. Eventually you are just paying the same price for a lesser quality product. Here is some food for thought. If fuel was priced off anything but speculation and fixing, then why does gasoline keep going down and up yet diesel remains unchanged? Diesel regulates the cost of everything, eventually, as everything is trucked in on diesel trucks. Nothing will change until OPEC is broken up due to being a monopoly, people stop whining and do something about this, and speculation is seen for the illegal trade practice that it is. Annually it may go up on average $1.50 a gallon and then down $1.00. We base our thinking off of the higher, $1.50 more that we were paying, and praise the situation, when in actuality gasoline has not gone down $.050, it actually has gone up $1.00. This way of thinking is dangerous, as those who price are corrupt and see this as a chance to slide prices up again.
Incidentally, petroleum fuels such as diesel are inferior to natural biodiesels. The reason petroleum has always been used is because petroleum oil was so much cheaper than veggie fuels, but this has not been the case for several years. Ethanol is a mutant fuel, and is not only less efficient, but destructive to the fuel system and engine due to it's corrosive properties. Ethanol drives the price of corn up, which drives the cost of animal feed up, and is an inferior product. There are other ways to produce natural fuel than ethanol. All in all, you will not see a change until the politics of gas pricing is changed. The government would have been much better off spending the bailout money on buying energy companies and regulating their prices to a normal cost, say $1.25 a gallon, which would then drive the cost of other competing companies down as well. It would cost less and yield more.
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 12:48 PM
  #5  
Uncle G.'s Avatar
Uncle G.
Seasoned HDF Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,332
Likes: 3,873
From: Upstate New York
Default

Then, again, there is the ethical question of converting millions of acres of farmland away from food production at a time when food prices are soaring, and starvation looms in much of the world. More money for the food speculators!
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 01:02 PM
  #6  
DK Custom's Avatar
DK Custom
Platinum Sponsor
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,685
Likes: 5,818
From: Hickory Flat, Mississippi
Default

If you want more power out of your bike, if you want better MPG, if you want to stop putting fuel that corrodes your fuel delivery system..Use Ethanol Free gas...check out this LINK for where you can get it.

BTW, you will be doing your part to help bring down food prices.

Kevin
 
__________________
DKCustomProducts.com
Call/Text: 662-252-8828
Email: Support@DKCustomProducts.com
Open House Details














Old Sep 3, 2011 | 01:08 PM
  #7  
marcortez's Avatar
marcortez
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
From: MX/AZ/NV
Default

Corn is a food staple world wide.

By diverting food crops to fuel crops, it drives world wide poverty and the resultant starvation, disease and child malnutrition.

Corn is a food crop....get it the hell out of the fuel business......if not, it's soon going to cost you an hours wages to buy a box of corn flakes.
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 01:08 PM
  #8  
cigarowens's Avatar
cigarowens
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 319
Likes: 4
From: Southeastern Michigan
Default

what Mustang said.

Ethanol is like a condom.. it gives you false sense of security while you are being screwed. It costs about 25% more to produce and it produces 25% less energy; net gain -50%. If it were not for subsidies ethanol would cost more than gasoline! Did anyone mention it is also a solvent and absorbs water... both characteristics are not good for a fuel system.

We can also discuss how dumb it is to be developing a fuel out of our food source. Ethanol produced from corn is just plain crazy; only winners are the huge "Argo" corporations!

Does our country need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil? YES!
Do we need to eliminate the speculators who's only function is to make money by driving up the price of fuel? YES
Do we need to tap into our domestic oil reserves? YES
Do we need to invest in alternative energy sources? YES
Is ethanol the answer? HELL NO!
Does Ethanol reduce our carbon footprint? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Wait until they start blending 15% into our gasoline; get ready to rebuild your carb every 6 months! I'm not sure what is it going to do to our rubber fuel lines, fuel pumps and winter storage... but I can guess.
 
HD Forum Stories

The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders

story-0

7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window

 Verdad Gallardo
story-1

7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles

 Verdad Gallardo
story-2

8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-3

10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-4

Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept

 Verdad Gallardo
story-7

Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II

 Verdad Gallardo
story-8

10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 02:49 PM
  #9  
KBFXDLI's Avatar
KBFXDLI
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,881
Likes: 34
From: USA
Default

Here is the real answer to world hunger


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA
 
Old Sep 3, 2011 | 07:24 PM
  #10  
BIACKBENZ's Avatar
BIACKBENZ
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 4
From: Mequon, WI
Default

I LMAO when I saw this skit. That was about 25 years ago! Still funny. Still true
 



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.

story-0
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window

Slideshow: Harley-Davidson built its reputation on nostalgia, but every so often, the company took a hard left turn into the future.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-20 11:18:19


VIEW MORE
story-1
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles

Slideshow: The bar-and-shield logo shows up on far more than motorcycles, some of the company's most unexpected products have nothing to do with riding.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-29 16:50:35


VIEW MORE
story-2
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

Slideshow: Not every Harley gets it right, but these are the ones that genuinely earned their reputation.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-15 14:23:21


VIEW MORE
story-3
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

Slideshow: From the troubled AMF years to modern misfires, these bikes earned reputations for reliability issues, questionable engineering, or disappointing performance.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-01 20:01:09


VIEW MORE
story-4
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In

Slideshow: Killer Custom's "Jail Breaker" build focuses more on stance and visual aggression than mechanical overhaul.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-18 19:20:32


VIEW MORE
story-5
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?

Slideshow: The Swiss custom shop has taken a Harley Softail and stretched it into something so long and low that it looks closer to a rolling sculpture than a conventional motorcycle.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-07 16:15:30


VIEW MORE
story-6
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept

Slideshow: Harley-Davidson's new RMCR concept revives the café racer formula with modern hardware-and it may be exactly the reset the company needs.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-04 12:23:37


VIEW MORE
story-7
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II

Slideshow: A standard cruiser becomes an intricate metal canvas in the hands of a Swiss custom house known for pushing Harley-Davidson platforms far beyond their factory brief.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-02-24 18:19:44


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy

Slideshow: There is no shortage of great motorcycles to buy, but we would avoid these ten.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-02-19 14:50:51


VIEW MORE
story-9
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026

Slideshow: Harley-Davidson's challenges aren't abstract; they show up in dropping shipments, shrinking dealer traffic, and strategic decisions that aren't yet translating into growth.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-01-13 18:33:17


VIEW MORE