Gearing Down or Not?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3,724
From: Hill Country, TX
Of course increasing RPM's when downshifting does something. It matches the speed of the rear wheel to the speed of the engine/drivetrain. If one downshifts without increasing RPM's of the engine a greater force would be applied to the rear wheel slowing it down quicker as the engine resists the increase in speed. When the rear wheel is slowed like that one runs the risk of losing traction. The purpose is to keep that slowing of the rear wheel gradual, the rpm's go up, shift, let out clutch, the engine speed matches the rear wheel speed, as the rpms go back down the engine breaking occurs without a sudden jolt and a reduced chance of locking up the rear wheel. It is the exact same reason an even application of increased force on the rear brake is much safer then slamming the rear brake on all at once. It becomes more obvious if one is racing a vehicle off road or on a very loose surface. I get some people not doing it because it is not "required", but to say it does nothing is absolutely wrong.
Of course, you know you're just wasting your time trying to explain this to some of the guys here. Hey, if they didn't teach it in the MSF course, then it must be bullshit...right?
They'll just go on coasting to a stop in 3rd gear with the clutch pulled in, in order to "save the clutch." The others are content to clunk it down a gear or two, and chirp the rear wheel at cruise speed. Maybe someday Harley will put a slipper clutch on a bagger for them.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a few of the above mentioned riders are the ones that have started threads about "dropping their bikes in a parking lot" and such.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,235
Likes: 65
From: Joliet, Illinois
Yup. ... but I can tell you from someone who TRIES to get the back wheel to lock up a bit when I downshift ... it ain't that easy to get it to lock up, even just a little. I come in pretty hard, downshift way too early and even have a little rear brake going on - and then I can get a little chirp before the rubber hooks in and starts spinning again. On rare occasions, I can get a good lock up.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44,903
Likes: 29,883
From: PNW
Some of the answers here are simply frightening. Rev Match in a panic stop?? Other than times when you want your girlfriend to slam into you (which I get btw), panic stops are the one time NOT to rev match.
Again, I would advise the OP to ignore everyone's riding advice here including mine. Come here to learn about where to hang your helmet/gremlin bell, learn what color is fastest, hear about people riding naked at midnight, or anything else of no consequence. But, when it comes to riding, seek out expert advice.
Last edited by nevada72; Sep 18, 2011 at 02:59 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 7,199
From: Oxford, Nc
Maybe, but I'm sure they're part of the group that " had to lay it down," ( you mean lost control, right?) when the sh*t hits the fan in an accident.
No free wheeling here ever, too many experts have taught me why that's so.
Last edited by Stiggy; Sep 18, 2011 at 03:55 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3,724
From: Hill Country, TX
But I guess asking you to see the difference between these two types of riders is asking too much.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 7,199
From: Oxford, Nc
Highly doubtful. You're mistaking a guy that might choose to lay a bike down on purpose, as a last ditch effort to keep his head from being removed in an imminent crash situation,
But I guess asking you to see the difference between these two types of riders is asking too much.
But I guess asking you to see the difference between these two types of riders is asking too much.
But here's your lesson for the day young man...There is NEVER a reason to "lay down" a motorcycle, that's giving up control.
I believe you've been watching too many movies.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,134
Likes: 146
From: texas
does everyone in this forum have to argue about every dam thing? I swear if i started a thread about puppies and ice cream someone would have a problem with it.
some people here are mad because everyone doesnt do it just like them.....well some are looking for different outcomes and talking about different scenarios...thats why things are different.
Do you want a smooth downshift? Then you shift at that magic point when the revs and speed match.
Do you want a sorta smooth downshift that allows for SOME engine breaking as well (i think that is what most people shoot for----I DIDNT SAY ALL SO DONT FLAME ME PLEASE LOL ----Then you shift right before that magic point...the quicker you need to stop the sooner you shift making sure you dont downshift to early that will cause a rear wheel lockup......in some extreme cases that would be better than say..??? hitting a brick wall.depends on how quick you need to stop.The quicker you need to stop the more engine braking you need.There is wiggle room here.Some of you guys act like you will slide off the road in a burning inferno if you engine brake at all.After all if you go from 5th to 1st on a corner with gravel on it you will lock up the rear tire and crash(not my logic)----therefore you shouldnt go from 5th to 4th with a little engine braking....or low rpm 5th to 3rd etc. You guys are being silly.
The 2 things i THINK everyone can agree on(beside MIDNITE
) is you dont want your rear wheel to lock up.Also that you should be in a appropriate gear for the ("need to skat" moments.)....even if you use nothing but brake.
for the people that "blip" their engines everytime they downshift....i didnt even know yall existed until today. Its a whatever situation for me.I dont understand it but ..whatever.If thats what you do then go for it...blip on brothers.
some people here are mad because everyone doesnt do it just like them.....well some are looking for different outcomes and talking about different scenarios...thats why things are different.
Do you want a smooth downshift? Then you shift at that magic point when the revs and speed match.
Do you want a sorta smooth downshift that allows for SOME engine breaking as well (i think that is what most people shoot for----I DIDNT SAY ALL SO DONT FLAME ME PLEASE LOL ----Then you shift right before that magic point...the quicker you need to stop the sooner you shift making sure you dont downshift to early that will cause a rear wheel lockup......in some extreme cases that would be better than say..??? hitting a brick wall.depends on how quick you need to stop.The quicker you need to stop the more engine braking you need.There is wiggle room here.Some of you guys act like you will slide off the road in a burning inferno if you engine brake at all.After all if you go from 5th to 1st on a corner with gravel on it you will lock up the rear tire and crash(not my logic)----therefore you shouldnt go from 5th to 4th with a little engine braking....or low rpm 5th to 3rd etc. You guys are being silly.
The 2 things i THINK everyone can agree on(beside MIDNITE
) is you dont want your rear wheel to lock up.Also that you should be in a appropriate gear for the ("need to skat" moments.)....even if you use nothing but brake.for the people that "blip" their engines everytime they downshift....i didnt even know yall existed until today. Its a whatever situation for me.I dont understand it but ..whatever.If thats what you do then go for it...blip on brothers.
Last edited by straydog13; Sep 18, 2011 at 09:34 AM.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 11
From: Kentucky
I usually do that when I don't really want to - often trying to beat stop light coming off an exist ramp, or when I miss my turn.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 193
Likes: 2
From: Not too far up the BC border
Again, I would advise the OP to ignore everyone's riding advice here including mine. Come here to learn about where to hang your helmet/gremlin bell, learn what color is fastest, hear about people riding naked at midnight, or anything else of no consequence. But, when it comes to riding, seek out expert advice.
From reading other threads and posts and I know that some of you been biking since you been in diapers and that means far more to me than having some stiffneck reading out of a book on how I should drive. Everytime I leave my driveway and go out into the asphalt jungle its a driving test,if I pass I make it home safely and if I fail..well just don't wanna do that.
I know that since I'm on a bike I have to drive for all the cars around me, constantly evaluating and re-evaluating situations, not drive in the center of the lane and list goes on and on and so far I've done pretty good but I don't know everything so I seek knowledge from a broad range of opnions and this forum does that for me.
At the end of the day, no matter what anybody says or does its my choice wether I use the opnions of this forum because they are only opnions, not written in stone and I value some of them.
All I can say is ride safe, have fun and keep the rubber side down.