Here's my rant: I hooked up with this board last March when I bought my 06 FXST and I have learned a lot from you folks but now I'm not so sure someyour advice is so "informed". EQ. When I decided to get aftermarket exaust I did a lot of research here and the general consensus was alwaysthat when you put different pipes on your harley you MUST also install the SE race tuner kit (or similar), upgrade the air intake,and have the bike dyno'd, all of which I did at considerable expense. Last summer I met a fellow at a rally who had a new EFIHerritage classic with the same pipes as mine and he told me he just bolted them onand started ridingand has had no problems at all. Ok, that was one mans opinion and I took it with a grain of salt. Yesterday I was at a gas station filling my truck and a gent rides up to the pump opposite me on an 06 EFIsoftail with a set of V&H slash pipes, I commented on his nice looking scoot and asked about the pipes, he says "Ya I just bolted themon without any other mods and she rides just fine". He went on to say that his best friend is a retired Harley level 5 tech. and whenever he hears about the "computer upgrades and dyno hype he gets a big chuckle out of it, because he knows that when you change the pipes on an EFI engine the factory computer will make the adjustments on it own.

FLAME ON

 

Up untill the 07 model year the EFI systems on harleys had no O2 sensors (open loop I believe if Im wrong someone will correct me) without the O2 sensors there is no way the EFI computer can know weather or not your bike is running lean or rich. So how would the EFI without the O2 sensors as you state adjust the air fuel mixture with no feed back from the exhaust gasses leaving the bike. If you dont like that expanation then how about this one for the dyno tune/ fuel adder (SERT/ PCIII)current EPA regulations make the MoCo lean out the bikes air fuel mixture so that from the factory they can be compliant with all government regulations. A dyno tune with a SERT or PCIII will allow you to gain sugnificant amounts of horse power and torque ( I gained 12hp and 14 ft lbs tq myself) while giving your bike enough fuel to allow it to run as cool as possible without the nasty by products of a rich condition (black smoke out the exhaust or fouled plugs). Granted most harleys are air cooled and run hot to begin with because of the nature of the beast but giving them the proper air fuel mixture for the area that you live and ride in will give your motor more life and make it more reliable. If you were talking about the 07 bikes then you could have a valid argument but even that would still be flaued. the 07 bikes have a narrow band system and can only adjust the air fuel mixture a smaler amount as compared to a wide band system. So taking that into consideration you may even need to ad a SERT or PCIII to an 07 bike to get optimal performance. I am by far no expert on this subject but it sounds to me that from what the level 5 harley mechanic said if I went to work for Harley I could easily be a level 10 or 15 master mechanic.


Chris

 

I always heard if the EFI is a close loop system the EFI can and will make adjustments as necessary, but the EFI didn't start being closed loop until the '07s, I think.

And then, does it adjust for performance or air quality?

 

Damn I hate when someone types faster than I do...

 

If you just bolt on aftermarket pipes, without opening the A/C, you willusually be OK as far as A/F mixture. Once youopen the A/C you will probably need a re-tune, unless you have a closed loop system that will adjust the fuel mixture to compensate for the extra volume of air.

In my case (2005 RKC). The Stage 1, with download, gave me huge performance gains, but I had some popping on decel. With the PCIII installed, that's gone.

YMMV and it's your money. Do what you wish.

 

Cognizant --

It's a matter of opinion and I'm sure no one was purposely steering you wrong. We on the forum have nothing to gain from you spending money.

I can honestly say with my pipes having the Harley "upload" and changing the air cleaner helps "smooth" the popping you can get with after market pipes. I also bought the "mufflers" instead of going with straights for the same reason.

If you are new to biking or even just Harley's you may not notice the difference of the adjustments the racing tuner and getting it dyno'd can offer. It might mean a big difference or a small difference depending on the pipes you bought and how sensative you are to the changes in power modifications such as pipes can cause. Me I heard that I lose a bit of torque with my pipes I didn't notice because it's new to me.

I have decent service department at my dealer and so far they have not steered me wrong. My dealer automatically didair cleaner and uploadon every bike they sold....they believed it to be that important since most people change thier pipes. They told me that after that I was fine to just bolt on my particular pipes with no other adjustments (heck they even told me how to install the pipes). They also told me that I did not need to upgrade to Synth oil (which is also more expensive) because the engine is made to use regular oil and the benefits are not huge.If I took it to a different dealer I would get another opinion.

No Flame just understand that you are gettingopinions...."Free advice" that may or may not come from a Harley tech or even a seasoned biker. It comes from people who want to help and believe what they are saying because it worked for them right or wrong.

Note: I am not saying you were told anything wrong!!!!!

 

[sm=violin.gif] Get a grip!!

 

One reason to upgrade pipes is to upgrade performance over stock. Why upgrade the pipes if you are not going to upgrade the a/c? If you upgrade the a/c, you need to compensate for the added amount of air, so you need to re-tune the EFI to run correctly.

I'm no mechanic, but I understand that concept. I also did the work myself, thanks to the tips & info on this board!

 

[sm=laughat.gif] You believed what you read here?

 

Most folks probably assume that you were looking for at least mild performance increases that are hidden inside our stock HD's.

Noone steered you astray and the information is worth every penny you paid for it.

IMO...there is no one "fix"....it depends on what you want to accomplish, If all you wanted to do was make more noise, then sure you could have bolted on the pipes and been happy. But your bike is likely perfoming a lot better than those other folks that just did the bolt ons.