no clue about efi please help
Thread Starter
|
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,374
Likes: 5
From: redbank new Jersey
no clue about efi please help
im a carb guy I know nothing about efi im helping my dad with his 09 deluxe he has long shots and open airfliter and no chip under the seat looks all stock so I guess he just has a.download? heres what I want to know what would happen if I added a simple tuner like a v&h fuel pack??? what would it do to the bike ??run cooler??
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,133
Likes: 125
From: Japan
Do dear ol' dad a big favor and get him a Power Vision as a (early) father's day gift. It costs a bit more than the Fuel Pak, but it's 100x the product. Just flash the stock ECM and go. Mount the included LCD screen to the handlebars and monitor the tune while riding or pull it off. Either way, it's currently about the latest, best, most user-friendly product out there for EFI bikes. Call Jamie at Fuel Moto (forum sponsor) and he'll set you up with the best price and map for dad's bike. Good luck.
Thread Starter
|
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,374
Likes: 5
From: redbank new Jersey
ok thanks
Trending Topics
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 151
Likes: 1
From: Kokomo IN
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/harley/ef...rs/fm-004.html
check this out, cheapest way with great support behind it
check this out, cheapest way with great support behind it
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 901
Likes: 5
From: Springfield, MO
I'll give you a few things to consider, and I'll dumb it down -- not because I think you're dumb, but because you said you know little to nothing about EFI.
The ECM (the bike's computer or brain) comes programmed from the factory to call for a certain amount of fuel from the fuel injectors at a given combination of RPM and throttle position. If you're cruising down the highway at 2,800 RPM and the throttle is 25% open, the ECM knows how much fuel to tell the injectors to spray.
(Of course, that's an oversimplification. An '09 touring bike will also monitor certain other perimeters like ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum, and feed back from the oxygen sensors to fine tune the amount of fuel delivered at any given RPM/throttle position.)
It is universally agreed that fuel injected Harleys come from the factory running too lean, in order to meet increasingly tightening EPA emissions regulations. When you start moving even more air through the motor via free flowing exhaust, air cleaners, and even cams, the lean condition gets even worse in a hurry. This lean condition causes the heat so many complain about, as well as pre-ignition (pinging). If the lean condition is bad enough, engine damage can result.
In the old days, we would rejet the carb. On EFI bikes, we reprogram the bike's ECM. This is done in many ways.
First, the dealer can do what is known as a Stage One download. It is supposed to reprogram the ECM to provide more fuel on a bike that has a Stage One air cleaner installed, but the Stage One download is street legal (EPA approved) and generally considered to be an inadequate solution (i.e., still too lean).
Second, you or your mechanic can use a device to "reflash" the bike's ECM with a new map (SERT, SESP, Power Vision, etc.). These devices don't stay "on" the bike. They are connected only long enough to do the reprogramming, and then removed.
Third, you can use a device that piggybacks on the ECM and modifies the data coming out of it (Power Commander, Fuel Pack, etc.). These types of devices DO stay on the bike.
Fourth, there are devices on the market (XIED, VIED, etc.) that plug in between the oxygen sensors and the bike's wiring to send false readings to the ECM, thereby tricking it into running richer.
To confuse things just a little more. The modifications that have been made to the motor (i.e., slipons only, or true duals? air cleaner? cams?) will determine how much (as a percentage) the original map in the bike's ECM needs to be changed in each RPM and throttle position combination. And there are two ways to get the new map.
One is by using a "canned" map provided by the manufacturer of the tuning device. They know approximately what a bike of a certain type with certain modifications needs and can provide a map to get you pretty darn close. Or, you can have a custom map developed for your bike by a good dyno tuner who will strap your bike to a dyno and run it at various engine speeds while monitoring the air/fuel ratio via a tailpipe sniffer to arrive at the best tune/map for your bike.
While most agree the dyno tune (more expensive) squeezes out every last horsepower, most seem to opt for the less expensive (i.e., free) canned maps for normal street use, especially on bikes that only have air cleaner and exhaust changed.
In your dad's case, he's just running a simple stage one (i.e., exhaust and air cleaner) setup. Contact Fuel Moto (a sponsor here) to order a Power Commander V or maybe the newer Power Commander Micro (or whatever that new, smaller one is called). They will provide a canned map from their database that will be dead on for your combination of exhaust and air cleaner, and I think you will find the bike runs cooler and better.
They are unbeatable for customer service, and will provide additional maps in the future for free should he ever make other mods to his motor.
The ECM (the bike's computer or brain) comes programmed from the factory to call for a certain amount of fuel from the fuel injectors at a given combination of RPM and throttle position. If you're cruising down the highway at 2,800 RPM and the throttle is 25% open, the ECM knows how much fuel to tell the injectors to spray.
(Of course, that's an oversimplification. An '09 touring bike will also monitor certain other perimeters like ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum, and feed back from the oxygen sensors to fine tune the amount of fuel delivered at any given RPM/throttle position.)
It is universally agreed that fuel injected Harleys come from the factory running too lean, in order to meet increasingly tightening EPA emissions regulations. When you start moving even more air through the motor via free flowing exhaust, air cleaners, and even cams, the lean condition gets even worse in a hurry. This lean condition causes the heat so many complain about, as well as pre-ignition (pinging). If the lean condition is bad enough, engine damage can result.
In the old days, we would rejet the carb. On EFI bikes, we reprogram the bike's ECM. This is done in many ways.
First, the dealer can do what is known as a Stage One download. It is supposed to reprogram the ECM to provide more fuel on a bike that has a Stage One air cleaner installed, but the Stage One download is street legal (EPA approved) and generally considered to be an inadequate solution (i.e., still too lean).
Second, you or your mechanic can use a device to "reflash" the bike's ECM with a new map (SERT, SESP, Power Vision, etc.). These devices don't stay "on" the bike. They are connected only long enough to do the reprogramming, and then removed.
Third, you can use a device that piggybacks on the ECM and modifies the data coming out of it (Power Commander, Fuel Pack, etc.). These types of devices DO stay on the bike.
Fourth, there are devices on the market (XIED, VIED, etc.) that plug in between the oxygen sensors and the bike's wiring to send false readings to the ECM, thereby tricking it into running richer.
To confuse things just a little more. The modifications that have been made to the motor (i.e., slipons only, or true duals? air cleaner? cams?) will determine how much (as a percentage) the original map in the bike's ECM needs to be changed in each RPM and throttle position combination. And there are two ways to get the new map.
One is by using a "canned" map provided by the manufacturer of the tuning device. They know approximately what a bike of a certain type with certain modifications needs and can provide a map to get you pretty darn close. Or, you can have a custom map developed for your bike by a good dyno tuner who will strap your bike to a dyno and run it at various engine speeds while monitoring the air/fuel ratio via a tailpipe sniffer to arrive at the best tune/map for your bike.
While most agree the dyno tune (more expensive) squeezes out every last horsepower, most seem to opt for the less expensive (i.e., free) canned maps for normal street use, especially on bikes that only have air cleaner and exhaust changed.
In your dad's case, he's just running a simple stage one (i.e., exhaust and air cleaner) setup. Contact Fuel Moto (a sponsor here) to order a Power Commander V or maybe the newer Power Commander Micro (or whatever that new, smaller one is called). They will provide a canned map from their database that will be dead on for your combination of exhaust and air cleaner, and I think you will find the bike runs cooler and better.
They are unbeatable for customer service, and will provide additional maps in the future for free should he ever make other mods to his motor.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,932
Likes: 32
From: Broomfield, CO
I'll give you a few things to consider, and I'll dumb it down -- not because I think you're dumb, but because you said you know little to nothing about EFI.
The ECM (the bike's computer or brain) comes programmed from the factory to call for a certain amount of fuel from the fuel injectors at a given combination of RPM and throttle position. If you're cruising down the highway at 2,800 RPM and the throttle is 25% open, the ECM knows how much fuel to tell the injectors to spray.
(Of course, that's an oversimplification. An '09 touring bike will also monitor certain other perimeters like ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum, and feed back from the oxygen sensors to fine tune the amount of fuel delivered at any given RPM/throttle position.)
It is universally agreed that fuel injected Harleys come from the factory running too lean, in order to meet increasingly tightening EPA emissions regulations. When you start moving even more air through the motor via free flowing exhaust, air cleaners, and even cams, the lean condition gets even worse in a hurry. This lean condition causes the heat so many complain about, as well as pre-ignition (pinging). If the lean condition is bad enough, engine damage can result.
In the old days, we would rejet the carb. On EFI bikes, we reprogram the bike's ECM. This is done in many ways.
First, the dealer can do what is known as a Stage One download. It is supposed to reprogram the ECM to provide more fuel on a bike that has a Stage One air cleaner installed, but the Stage One download is street legal (EPA approved) and generally considered to be an inadequate solution (i.e., still too lean).
Second, you or your mechanic can use a device to "reflash" the bike's ECM with a new map (SERT, SESP, Power Vision, etc.). These devices don't stay "on" the bike. They are connected only long enough to do the reprogramming, and then removed.
Third, you can use a device that piggybacks on the ECM and modifies the data coming out of it (Power Commander, Fuel Pack, etc.). These types of devices DO stay on the bike.
Fourth, there are devices on the market (XIED, VIED, etc.) that plug in between the oxygen sensors and the bike's wiring to send false readings to the ECM, thereby tricking it into running richer.
To confuse things just a little more. The modifications that have been made to the motor (i.e., slipons only, or true duals? air cleaner? cams?) will determine how much (as a percentage) the original map in the bike's ECM needs to be changed in each RPM and throttle position combination. And there are two ways to get the new map.
One is by using a "canned" map provided by the manufacturer of the tuning device. They know approximately what a bike of a certain type with certain modifications needs and can provide a map to get you pretty darn close. Or, you can have a custom map developed for your bike by a good dyno tuner who will strap your bike to a dyno and run it at various engine speeds while monitoring the air/fuel ratio via a tailpipe sniffer to arrive at the best tune/map for your bike.
While most agree the dyno tune (more expensive) squeezes out every last horsepower, most seem to opt for the less expensive (i.e., free) canned maps for normal street use, especially on bikes that only have air cleaner and exhaust changed.
In your dad's case, he's just running a simple stage one (i.e., exhaust and air cleaner) setup. Contact Fuel Moto (a sponsor here) to order a Power Commander V or maybe the newer Power Commander Micro (or whatever that new, smaller one is called). They will provide a canned map from their database that will be dead on for your combination of exhaust and air cleaner, and I think you will find the bike runs cooler and better.
They are unbeatable for customer service, and will provide additional maps in the future for free should he ever make other mods to his motor.
The ECM (the bike's computer or brain) comes programmed from the factory to call for a certain amount of fuel from the fuel injectors at a given combination of RPM and throttle position. If you're cruising down the highway at 2,800 RPM and the throttle is 25% open, the ECM knows how much fuel to tell the injectors to spray.
(Of course, that's an oversimplification. An '09 touring bike will also monitor certain other perimeters like ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum, and feed back from the oxygen sensors to fine tune the amount of fuel delivered at any given RPM/throttle position.)
It is universally agreed that fuel injected Harleys come from the factory running too lean, in order to meet increasingly tightening EPA emissions regulations. When you start moving even more air through the motor via free flowing exhaust, air cleaners, and even cams, the lean condition gets even worse in a hurry. This lean condition causes the heat so many complain about, as well as pre-ignition (pinging). If the lean condition is bad enough, engine damage can result.
In the old days, we would rejet the carb. On EFI bikes, we reprogram the bike's ECM. This is done in many ways.
First, the dealer can do what is known as a Stage One download. It is supposed to reprogram the ECM to provide more fuel on a bike that has a Stage One air cleaner installed, but the Stage One download is street legal (EPA approved) and generally considered to be an inadequate solution (i.e., still too lean).
Second, you or your mechanic can use a device to "reflash" the bike's ECM with a new map (SERT, SESP, Power Vision, etc.). These devices don't stay "on" the bike. They are connected only long enough to do the reprogramming, and then removed.
Third, you can use a device that piggybacks on the ECM and modifies the data coming out of it (Power Commander, Fuel Pack, etc.). These types of devices DO stay on the bike.
Fourth, there are devices on the market (XIED, VIED, etc.) that plug in between the oxygen sensors and the bike's wiring to send false readings to the ECM, thereby tricking it into running richer.
To confuse things just a little more. The modifications that have been made to the motor (i.e., slipons only, or true duals? air cleaner? cams?) will determine how much (as a percentage) the original map in the bike's ECM needs to be changed in each RPM and throttle position combination. And there are two ways to get the new map.
One is by using a "canned" map provided by the manufacturer of the tuning device. They know approximately what a bike of a certain type with certain modifications needs and can provide a map to get you pretty darn close. Or, you can have a custom map developed for your bike by a good dyno tuner who will strap your bike to a dyno and run it at various engine speeds while monitoring the air/fuel ratio via a tailpipe sniffer to arrive at the best tune/map for your bike.
While most agree the dyno tune (more expensive) squeezes out every last horsepower, most seem to opt for the less expensive (i.e., free) canned maps for normal street use, especially on bikes that only have air cleaner and exhaust changed.
In your dad's case, he's just running a simple stage one (i.e., exhaust and air cleaner) setup. Contact Fuel Moto (a sponsor here) to order a Power Commander V or maybe the newer Power Commander Micro (or whatever that new, smaller one is called). They will provide a canned map from their database that will be dead on for your combination of exhaust and air cleaner, and I think you will find the bike runs cooler and better.
They are unbeatable for customer service, and will provide additional maps in the future for free should he ever make other mods to his motor.