Hadn't thought about that, but yea, I can see that it would be tricky. I'd think there'd be a way to manipulate the brakes seperately to get the bike sideways, but that might be tough to do in the time you might have to make a low side a choice.

 

Of course, and I agree 100%.

What gets to me are those on here who think all incidents involving bikes are somehow the rider's fault, a reflection of his abilities, riding beyond them, etc.

Emergency manuevers are only as good as the time it takes to execute them, and if there's not enough time, then you're going down. Some are implying that it's always the rider's fault if there's not enough time, and that's ignorant. The only 100% sure way to avoid an incident is to not ride.

 

In a perfect world a planned stop / panic skidding evasive maneuver is what we're supposed to do , reality is ever bigger & bulkier bikes ridden by ever increasing clueless riders with the skill set and reaction times of a turtle . Other words ****'s gonna happen and like or not sometimes the situation arises where a controlled slide is a better option than blunt force impact trauma .

 

Don't forget the ever increasing number of clueless cagers on their cellphones or, just in general, with their heads up their asses!

And you nailed it: **** is going to happen, and anyone who thinks they have the "skill" to avoid every bit of that **** is clueless.

 

I would really LIKE to believe this, but I think otherwise. I could probably "practice" all that stuff 8 hours a day 7 days a week. But If I'm faced with a situation where my mind goes into full on PANIC mode I think all the practice and preparation in the world goes right out the window.

Like you said, practicing things like short turns (looking "into" the turn) and balanced braking...etc can be learned. And they are easy to remember and do when you are relaxed. I can even remember to brake properly, not lock up the tires, keep the bike upright if I get into a slight bind where someone pulls in front of me.

Now let's say I'm in a situation where I look down for a second at a piece of gum I see stuck to my boot (it happens). I look back up to see a pick up truck stopped dead in front of me about 20 feet away and I'm doing like 60mph. I then lose all ability to think rationally, there I am bending the brake pedal in half. My life flashing before my eyes, different thoughts from my childhood rolling through my mind like a movie. Everything seems to go in slow motion (because of the adrenalin surge that I have no control over). You mind goes into full panic mode, some doctors would call that "Flight or Flee" mode. No matter how much you "practiced", I really don't believe you have any control over what your brain decides it wants to do in that situation. Just my opinion.

Another example: One of my good friends has trained his entire life doing Karate stuff. He's got some kind of brown "belt" in Karate, trained in Jujistsu and spent years training NJ state troopers in self defense. He's in his late 50's now. He worked as a bouncer part time. One night a bunch of drunken college football players pushed their way into the already overcrowded club he was working at. They tried telling them there wasn't enough room inside yet but these kids weren't taking NO for an answer. They stormed the place and basically attacked my friend. He said he started off doing all that kicking and karate chopping BS but as soon as he had 10 guys punching, kicking and smashing beer bottles on his head he found himself reverting back to regular old "boxing" to fend them off. He said he did it without being able to control himself. all those years of practice and training went right out the window when it came down to that time when he felt like he was going to die.

 

If I'm "going to hit," I'm going to stay upright as long as possible to reduce speed as much as possible.

In the time it takes you to lay your bike down in a situation that doesn't allow you to completely stop, you can drastically reduce your speed. I'd rather high-side at 30mph than low-side into an obstacle at 60mph.

 

Like my previous post, an impact at full speed in a "controlled slide" is worse than an impact at a lesser speed while upright.

It's simple physics- the "force" behind an impact is how much of a momentum shift there is in a given time frame. Momentum is mass * velocity. Your mass isn't going to change, so if you can decrease your velocity the impact will lessen. The impact is what kills you, and if there's an obstacle you'll have an impact whether you're on the ground or upright.

 

removed had a grouse pic in beginning, was supposed to be funny but it didn't start out that way, never mind

 

1. Once, in a world not so long ago, HDs and other motorcycles had drum brakes, front & rear. They did not stop for ****.
"laying it down" then, although maybe because of over-riding meant the difference from high speed upright crash or high side vs low side. Two shitty alternatives.

2. Modern brakes on bikes allow us to stop in situations that in the older days would have us flying through the air after hitting a vehicle. Always using brakes as effectively as possible is the right idea.

3. It's an imperfect world. Is a "lay down" a crash? Yes, hopefully a somewhat planned, last ditch effort not to either high side or upright T Bone somebody. A loosing situation either way, but sometimes it may be the lesser of two evils.

I have never laid a bike down in 40 (legally started at 15) years of riding. I have club raced Brit bikes, Jap bikes and ridden just about any POS on two wheels. I try to plan ahead and will use the **** out of brakes in an emergency in order to stop. I will avoid a high side at any cost. That being said, I will not rule out the last resort tool of a lay down. It would have to be a bad **** event, but life throws you those too.

 

You are leaving out an essential step in that the point of a "lay down" (last ditc effort) is to scrub as much speed off BEFORE the lay down. Then, the effects of sliding, bad as they may be will be reduced and it may be better than an upright impact. Either situation is undesirable, prior planning is better and a rider who uses the lay down as a first response has no business being on a bike.