The thing is, I DO know otherwise. Been riding all my life. Dirt bikes/Quads/Sportbike/Harleys progressed along like many others. I'm in my 50's now and had my share of near misses and close calls. All my years of riding experience helped get me out of a lot of jams. However, those few times where I've been caught completely off guard all that practice didn't amount to nothing as I was jamming the brake pedal as hard as I could. rear tire locked.

So if you believe practicing fake panic stops will help you, then go for it. I KNOW how I've reacted being IN the situation. And remember, When you are practicing your panic stop it's YOU determining when you hit the brakes. In the real world you are not going to be riding along and your brain says "OK Aces, get ready..........one, two, three, Ok STOP NOW".

 

I have been riding off and on for 40 years and never have I considers laying down a bike as an option.
I always felt that proper use of brakes will always be the fastest way to stop a bike.
I also know that as long as I am on the bike I still have options.

If I were to "lay the bike down" all my options go out the window.

 

sometimes laying it down will give a better chance of reduced injuries if there is not enough time to stop but it is better to stop upright than on your side, it is down to the precise situation.

 

Those that claim they " laid it down" are talkin out their rear ends and are either trying to save face instead if admitting they wrecked or are trying to sound cool.

Either way its lame.

 

Some good points on here but there are so many variables it's tough to say one thing is better than the other. Typically you don't want to lock up your back tire in a panic stop, but I can see where there might be times when you want to get into a controlled low side skid. I think the problem is immediately locking up the rear tire when you don't want to. This pretty much eliminates any other options you may have to either get out of the situation, or reduce the severity of the accident.

Some guys mostly use just their front brakes in normal situations, as in rolling up to a red light etc. I think it's good practice to almost always apply front and rear brakes. Somehow I got into that habit years ago, and now my immediate reaction in emergency braking is to simultaneously apply both front and rear brakes. By doing this, I would have scrubbed off speed and if I need to low side it, I can release the front brake to get into a controlled low side skid. One slight adjustment I made on my Dyna (that has mids) is adjusting the rear brake pedal so that it's just about at even height with the foot peg. Before it was slightly above the foot peg and I had to keep my right foot off to the side. This allows me to cover the rear brake, and instead of shifting and slamming my foot onto the brake pedal (as many do in a panic situation) I can quickly but smoothly apply pressure. It's also more comfortable. Of course this won't guarantee to save my ***, but it could in certain situations.

As far as practicing emergency stops. I see some think it won't help. I think it could. I played baseball most of my life and as a team, we always practiced situational baseball. I also visualized different scenarios to cut down on my reaction time while I was in the field. For example. As I played CF I would think about what I would do before it happened. What do I do when the ball is hit to my left, or right, or at me, over my head, etc. Who's on base, what base to do I throw to in those different situations. What's the score, who's my cutoff man. All those things I'd have figured out before the pitch is thrown. Once you do all this it's already set in your mind what to do and your instincts take over when it happens. You don't have time to think about it as it happens. Same goes for hitting. It's all reaction. You have an idea of what you're going to do before stepping into the batters box, then you see the ball and react to it. No time to think after the pitch is thrown. I think this applies to riding too. I understand there's no guarantee it will help save someone's ***, but if it does just one time, in one certain situation, it's well worth it.

 

Hah, well keep in mind, I'd rather take my chances stopping the bike and ditching as a last resort than "laying it down". The only exception would be, a semi pulls out in front of you (because you weren't paying attention?) and you would otherwise be decapitated. Sure, my *** is going off the back end of that bike. Then again, I don't think a semi is going to sneak up on me like that any time soon.

I've personally seen a guy avoid dying by doing this, by the way. Granted, he didn't evade like he should have, but in the end, the guy went over the hood of an SUV instead of into the side of the wheel well which would have been almost certain death. He escaped with minimal injuries.

 

Interesting read..........although it's been discussed before.

 

Using maximum braking, you slow from 60 MPH to 30 in 1.3 seconds (44fps - 88fps/32.2= time). A motorcycle on it's side slows from 60 to 30 MPH in 2.73 seconds (same formula, but friction reduced by half with is actually overstating the amount of friction developed by the machine on its side). The time to brake from 60 to a stop is the same 2.73 second. So, if I've got 2.73 seconds I can stop from 60 MPH (in 120 feet). To slide on its side from 60 MPH, a motorcycle comes to a stop in 240 feet, in 5.46 seconds (again this is even overstating the friction generated by the motor on its side).

The idea that "laying it down" puts the rider in a "low-side" crash is absolutely wrong. The vast majority of of motorcycle accidents in which the motor is on its side either prior to or instead of impact result from overuse of the REAR brake. A locked rear wheel sets up a high-side crash. The only way that the rider can expect to go off the low-side is when the front wheel is locked.

If the accident invetigator is on his game, when a rider claims he "laid the motorcycle down", the immediate follow-up questions should be "At what point, and for what reason, did you make the concious decision to stop riding the motorcycle and crash it?" and "What specific steps did you take to 'lay down' the motorcycle?" Invariably, these questions are met with some "umms and uhhs".

Having a crash to avoid a crash, is still a crash.

Harris
Denver, CO

www.youtube.com/conedown

 

Harris, correct me if I'm wrong, but locking up the rear tire only causes a high side if the rear tire is off to one side, and you release the rear brake. So if someone does unintentionally lock the rear brake, and the rear is off to one side, they should keep applying the brake until the bike comes to a stop to prevent a high side crash. I know if the rear tire is in a straight line with the front, you can release the rear brake and still control the bike.

I guess I have some questions about this. How will the bike react if the rear is locked and off to one side while the rear brake is still applied until it comes to a stop? Should front brake also be applied during this time? Also, is there any situation where where you would low side it?

Thanks

 

At the speeds we're talking about, the typical scenario is the rider over-uses the rear brake, and locks it. The rear end of the machine comes out. Eventually (actually quickly considering we're talking about a vehicle going 88 feet per second) the rear is so far out that "forward" changes from a line from the rear to the front of the motorcycle; to a line diagonally through the motorcycle. Up to this point, the motorcycle will be leaned somewhat away from the direction the rear wheel is going out. Once, that angle is reached, the motorcycle radiacally changes lean, and flops over on the opposite side. This is the dictionary definitaion of a "high-side". When it happens, the rider is going off the machine, and up, before coming down.

Here's a very clear video of a high-side:


As you can see the rear end of the machine slides out to the right, and the motorcycle is leaned to the left. Then - when it gets far enough out of line - the machine flips rapidly from being leaned to the left, to landing on its right side. The rider is ejected.

As for braking technique, The front brake is the primary brake on the motorcycle, it should always be used in an emergency stopping situation, and the best way to ensure you do this is always use the front brake in every stop. What you do routinely is what you will do in an emergency.

As for the question "would you ever low-side it?" No. First, my motor has ABS. The only way to put a motor on its side at speed is to lock a wheel. ABS prevents locked wheels. Second, even on a non-ABS motor, there is no situation where I would stop riding the motorcycle, and put myself on the pavement. Nothing good can happen there. Anyone who says they have some plan to "lay the motor down" - other than a stunt man in the movies - is either a liar or delusional. Logcally it makes no more sense than jumping out of your car because it's going to hit something. Practically, when you're riding, you cannot employ a tactic in an emergency that hasn't been practiced. No one practices deliberately crashing. I've had a number of people tell me they "laid the motorcycle down", but none have done any such thing. they commited the braking error of locking a wheel (usually the rear), and crashed.

Harris
Denver, CO

www.youtube.com/conedown