Without getting all defensive....
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
The average annual mileage for HD's is very typical of all makes of motorcycles which is about 3 to 5 thousand a year.
However many touring HD riders do 15 to 30 thousand a year. Young riders of metrics rarely tour they just ride around their community. Touring riders ride around the world.
The example of Honda reliability is myth. Honda went three model years before a major welding problem was solved with the frames. They farmed the repair work out to local welders. The VT1800 one of Honda's biggest flops and money loser next to the Rune had a long run of bad bearings in the final drive. That bike also had problems with the grounding system that warranted a recall. The Rune had throttle position sensor issues and poor gas mileage.
The thing with metric bikes is like with Japanese cars. The owners are so hung up on they bought the best made vehicles that they keep quiet about problems.
There are legions of HD owners through all the years of knuckles, pans, evo's and and now TC's that have went over 100,000 miles and more with only wear part replacements not engine over hauls.
I owned metrics all my life until I was 65. When I got my first HD a 07 FXSTC in Aug. of 06 I never went back to the metrics. I owned over two dozen of them from Yamaha, Suzuki , Kawasaki and Honda. None including my 02 VTX1800 or 04 Rune had the fit, finish and quality of components that the metrics did.
I have taking HD's through 49 states and most of Canada. Never had an issue and they always got me home. The 7 year old FXSTC let me down last season. It had a starting issue when hot and started up after it cooled down.
I checked the codes (try that on your metric) and found that it needed a new $8.33 ignition relay. But then fuses and relays are wear parts.
I now collect and keep all the HD's that I buy. I will not sell any like I did with all my metrics. They are so good that I can not bear to part with them.
However many touring HD riders do 15 to 30 thousand a year. Young riders of metrics rarely tour they just ride around their community. Touring riders ride around the world.
The example of Honda reliability is myth. Honda went three model years before a major welding problem was solved with the frames. They farmed the repair work out to local welders. The VT1800 one of Honda's biggest flops and money loser next to the Rune had a long run of bad bearings in the final drive. That bike also had problems with the grounding system that warranted a recall. The Rune had throttle position sensor issues and poor gas mileage.
The thing with metric bikes is like with Japanese cars. The owners are so hung up on they bought the best made vehicles that they keep quiet about problems.
There are legions of HD owners through all the years of knuckles, pans, evo's and and now TC's that have went over 100,000 miles and more with only wear part replacements not engine over hauls.
I owned metrics all my life until I was 65. When I got my first HD a 07 FXSTC in Aug. of 06 I never went back to the metrics. I owned over two dozen of them from Yamaha, Suzuki , Kawasaki and Honda. None including my 02 VTX1800 or 04 Rune had the fit, finish and quality of components that the metrics did.
I have taking HD's through 49 states and most of Canada. Never had an issue and they always got me home. The 7 year old FXSTC let me down last season. It had a starting issue when hot and started up after it cooled down.
I checked the codes (try that on your metric) and found that it needed a new $8.33 ignition relay. But then fuses and relays are wear parts.
I now collect and keep all the HD's that I buy. I will not sell any like I did with all my metrics. They are so good that I can not bear to part with them.
There was actually a study that verified exactly what you're talking about. American brands have a reputation of poor quality, ergo their owners bitch about everything. Foreign brands have a reputation of high quality, ergo their owners brush off things that go wrong.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
I don't think harley davidson is any different then most companies. If it isn't safety related and it is a common problem they aren't going to fix it any time soon.
There are many problems that are reacurring in ford, chevy, and dodge that should be recalls...but unless they have the potential of killing someone they will not put out a recall for it.
It's about the money...they have to be profitable to be in business.
Having said that, I think harleys are the most simplest motorcycles in the word to service and work on.
There are many problems that are reacurring in ford, chevy, and dodge that should be recalls...but unless they have the potential of killing someone they will not put out a recall for it.
It's about the money...they have to be profitable to be in business.
Having said that, I think harleys are the most simplest motorcycles in the word to service and work on.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
Foreign brands have a reputation of high quality, ergo their owners brush off things that go wrong.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 23
From: Connecticut
The original poster's questions are valid.
I had an FXRS that needed a fix for the front sprocket -- design problem with the original.
I had a 2000 Road Glide that had problems with the cam chain tensioners.
I see numerous posts here about the problem with the wheel bearings on 2009 models. You think they would have learned the first time with the INA cam bearing from the EVO era.
I'm on HD #5 now ('07 Road Glide). No intention of changing.
But I, too, wonder why the MoCo doesn't throw more $$$ into engineering and quality control. They seem to have hit it right with the VROD motor, as I see few complaints about it's reliablity.
Aside: even Honda has had design/quality problems, such as those a lot of Goldwing owners had with the alternator (I believe).
But I think HD could be trying a little harder in this regard. Maybe the bean counters don't believe it's necessary...
I had an FXRS that needed a fix for the front sprocket -- design problem with the original.
I had a 2000 Road Glide that had problems with the cam chain tensioners.
I see numerous posts here about the problem with the wheel bearings on 2009 models. You think they would have learned the first time with the INA cam bearing from the EVO era.
I'm on HD #5 now ('07 Road Glide). No intention of changing.
But I, too, wonder why the MoCo doesn't throw more $$$ into engineering and quality control. They seem to have hit it right with the VROD motor, as I see few complaints about it's reliablity.
Aside: even Honda has had design/quality problems, such as those a lot of Goldwing owners had with the alternator (I believe).
But I think HD could be trying a little harder in this regard. Maybe the bean counters don't believe it's necessary...
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 462
From: Arizona
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 600
Likes: 2
From: Kansas
They may be able to try a bit harder but the economy is definitely in rough shape, and has been for a few years now. I feel a lot of what they do is to help keep them afloat and still leave themselves room for new models or changes. Any motorcycle company produces bikes with certain issues in certain year models, it happens. The good thing is we have these forums now to share our issues with one another so we are more aware than ever before.
Also remember, when you hear of problems with a bike you are only hearing from that small percentage of owners that have the problems and not the vast majority that don't see these issues. That is with any company as well. Some problems are worse than others, some not so much.
Another issue is I liken the difference in maintenance on a motorcycle vs a car to the difference between a helicopter and an airplane. The motorcycle needs a higher level of maintenance for safety sake than a car. I don't think that a lot of owners treat motorcycle maintenance as serious as they should. A component failure on a bike can be way more catastrophic than on a car and regardless of manufacturer a bike should be properly maintained and inspected on a regular basis.
Also remember, when you hear of problems with a bike you are only hearing from that small percentage of owners that have the problems and not the vast majority that don't see these issues. That is with any company as well. Some problems are worse than others, some not so much.
Another issue is I liken the difference in maintenance on a motorcycle vs a car to the difference between a helicopter and an airplane. The motorcycle needs a higher level of maintenance for safety sake than a car. I don't think that a lot of owners treat motorcycle maintenance as serious as they should. A component failure on a bike can be way more catastrophic than on a car and regardless of manufacturer a bike should be properly maintained and inspected on a regular basis.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 60
From: Los Angeles
Ok. I won't get defensive. I'll just state a few facts.
I've logged 17 years of city riding in all kinds of conditions on my Harleys. Snow, insane heat, you name it.
Never had a breakdown. Never had a bike not start.
Have fun putting your bearings under a microscope. I'll just ride.
I've logged 17 years of city riding in all kinds of conditions on my Harleys. Snow, insane heat, you name it.
Never had a breakdown. Never had a bike not start.
Have fun putting your bearings under a microscope. I'll just ride.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 116
From: OKC
Myself, latest HD, 2011 FXDF. 24000 miles, less than 24 months. Other than a blown fork seal, nothing but routine maintenance. Gets ridden virtually every day, rain, sun, cold, etc. Usually hits 95 MPH or higher almost every day. Most reliable bike I have ever had in a lifetime of riding. I am certain if money was no object, it could be made with better parts, but at what cost? If and when things fail,they'll either get replaced or upgraded. MHO:YMMV
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Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 686
Likes: 29
From: Niceville
This change required building in obsolescence, and making the bike less owner maintenance friendly. It also included cutting costs so shareholders could enjoy more profit.
HD wants everyone to buy a new bike every two or three years. That is the only way they make money for their shareholders. Gone are the "Evo" days when HD made a very reliable, owner friendly bike. They made no money. And as a corporation, HD's sole responsibility is to the shareholder, not the purchaser.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 19,982
Likes: 6,110
From: Florida
Ever see a babe that is SOOooo smokin' HOTT that every single guy wants her?
Why should she be anything but a royal biotch? Treats guys like crap, takes their money & gifts, and they keep coming back for more. And, she KNOWS they will no matter how badly she treats 'em.
Sound familiar?
Why should she be anything but a royal biotch? Treats guys like crap, takes their money & gifts, and they keep coming back for more. And, she KNOWS they will no matter how badly she treats 'em.
Sound familiar?
Last edited by dickey; Jul 8, 2013 at 02:36 AM.